The Best 3-Card System (1,352 images)

Ok, I know I already made two posts on this topic, but bear with me. This time I promise it’s something truly usable. In fact, I believe I’ve finally found a 3-card system suitable for competitions.

My first 3-card system and my second one have their problems: the former is too huge (requires 8,788 images) and the latter is too compressed and confusing (requires 2,197 images). This time we need just 1,352 images… yes, the same number of images as a 2-card block system, yet this is not going to result in a super compressed method.

In order to apply this system, we are going to need a memory palace with 17 rooms/regions, each containing 13 loci. For each locus, we are going to divide it in four subloci: front left, front right, back left, and back right.

To memorize each image, we are going to store it in the room that corresponds to the number of the image (the first triple goes to the first room, the second triple goes to the second one, and so on). The exact locus will depend on the rank of the first card (10 goes to the first locus, A goes to the second one, 2 goes to the third one, …, Q goes to the second-to-last one, and K goes to the last locus in the room).

To encode the first suit, we are going to place the image according to these rules:
:hearts: : front left sublocus
:diamonds: : front right sublocus
:spades: : back left sublocus
:clubs: : back right sublocus

In other words, “red” means close while “black” means far; :spades: :hearts: mean left while :diamonds: :clubs: mean right.

If there is a locus like a table, I’d prefer to place the “back” subloci over the table and the “front” ones in front of the table because we don’t want any image to be hidden. Therefore, “red” may mean bottom while “black” may mean top.

In order to encode the last two cards, we are going to apply the Double-2-Block System. However, that system requires a block strategy to distinguish between red-first suit-pairs and black-first ones; the method mentioned in that post was Johannes’s variable image stacking, but it doesn’t work here since there is only one image per locus. Instead, we are going to use a technique I named the Agent-observer strategy, which you can find here).

Btw, if having a single image per locus bothers you, try to create an interaction between the two; don’t just place the image there.

And that is it! The only hard work will be to build those memory palaces, but, after finished, they will be easily grasped by the natural memory. After a few runs, the card each locus represents will also become automatic.

What is your opinion on these ideas?

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This is definitely the most attainable idea so far.

Biggest downside is the need for 221 distinct loci per palace. For speed in encoding it could be a chore to zoom to the correct value loci / suit sub-loci. Some kind of intuitive marker system or lots of drilling will be needed to get to a point of instantaneous location finding via that first card. But, palaces are unchanging and can be learned to fluency fairly quickly. It will be a challenge to craft each loci in a way that there are four distinct encoding zones for those suits, but again, this will be a predetermined layout that once set, is set. Usually for card practice its good to have several palaces so that you can practice multiple deck memorizing attempts per day. It will take a while to prep and practice multiple palaces with this extensive loci set-up, but it may be worth it for the benefits that can be extracted.

The idea of using spatial features to actually encode details is really great and I think is head and shoulders above category modifiers that affect the imagery. Combining this with the agent-observer idea to determine the 2-block suit designation is really smart. The images stay as learned, while the position and interaction encodes the critical additional details.

If you have a 2704 card system of any kind, you could even just use those combined with loci encoding to get you to 3 cards in one image, with agent-observer technique not needed. The animation and interaction can be whatever you want. I may explore this as a phase-two expansion once I get my 2704-PO locked in.

Just to make sure I’m grasping it correctly, and as a practical demo for others, here’s an example for how I’d encode a 3-card image for [A :spades:] [2 :spades:] [3 :spades:] if it was my first set in the deck.

I’d see that triple set and quickly recognize that “at palace zone 1, loci 1 / sub-loci 1 (for [A :spades:]), I will observe my image for [2 :spades:] [3 :spades:].”

Since it’s the first set, the image will go into my first palace zone, lets say this is my house. The first card is an Ace so it will live at my first loci. Lets say this is my mailbox. I need to determine 4 sub-loci zones to represent the first card suit. This is where it can get a little tricky as some loci may not have ideal “front left / front right / back left / back right” features.

I’m going to say that the front flap of the box will be Spade zone, inside the box at the back will be the Heart zone, sitting on top of the mailbox will be for Clubs, and hanging onto the post underneath the box will be for diamonds.

So, my image will live at on the front flap of the mailbox because the first card suit is a Spade. Now I just need to retrieve my image for the pair that’s created by card 2 and 3… [2 :spades:] [3 :spades:]. This pair is represented by the Sandman for me. (Lets assume this is a 2-block image that could also represent [2 :hearts:] [3 :hearts:])

So we’ve got the front of the mailbox where the Sandman lives… This tells us we have the Ace of Spades as the first card and either the 2 and 3 of Spades or 2 and 3 of Hearts. To lock in that second pair, we apply the agent-observer method. If the pair was red-first we would imagine ourselves interacting with the Sandman in some way. It’s not, it’s black-first, so we take the perspective of an observer watching the Sandman do something on his own.

So I picture the mailbox sitting open, the Sandman is using the front flap as springboard, he’s bouncing up and down on it, all the while flinging fistfuls of sand everywhere.

That encodes the first three cards.

For the second set, say [3 :hearts:] [4 :hearts:] [5 :hearts:] I think “in palace zone 2, at loci 3, sub-loci 2 (for [3 :hearts:]), I will interact with my image for [4 :hearts:] [5 :hearts:].”

I’d use the second pre-determined palace zone, maybe its my old school classroom. I’d go to the 3rd loci (maybe my desk) and the Hearts sub-loci (inside the desk) and there, I’d have a bowl of cereal (my image for [4 :hearts:] [5 :hearts:] and [4 :spades:] [5 :spades:]) In order to encode that its the red-first version. I actually interact with this scene. I’d imagine myself pouring a bowl of cereal all over the inside of the desk, completely soaking its contents.

So theres the first 6 cards, encoded by just Sandman and Cereal and their locations and interactions!

Now if I apply my Person/Object 2704-Card system images to this, I don’t even have to worry about encoding via agent/observer. I can place the exact image for the card pair and make it animate however I want. Having this approach could be awesome as it would really force the focus of the scene animation to be the image memorably interacting with the specific sub-loci. It would lean more heavily on the spacial recall to parse which loci was used in each palace area, but that may actually be a strength of this system. Only 17 total images for a full deck is amazing. (Technically this gets you 51 cards, but you’d just grab the final card or not even worry about it because it would be the only one left at the end!)

It will be a heavy lift to craft multiple palaces with all the loci needed, but it could be worth it. Even if you can get 4 palaces so that you can practice a couple times per day, it could be enough to build up to competition speed in a reasonable timeframe.

Well done, @Mike4 !!!

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I’m glad you like this idea, Tim! I’m certainly going to give this a try.

You got the system right!

I do think all loci have these four, and I’d try my best not to break this rule, or else it’ll be even harder to build those memory palaces.

For instance, let’s take the mailbox. You could divide the locus in “in front of the mailbox on the left,” “in front of the mailbox on the right,” “above the mailbox on the right,” and “above the mailbox on the left.” In this case, I’d probably imagine sandman flying behind the mailbox on the left (diagonally) throwing a blast of sand on the mailbox.

I was actually thinking about this as well “man, if I had Tim’s system, it would be even easier,” haha.

It will be tough, but I’m convinced it will be worth it. In fact, this system may be revolutionary.

Edit: I actually think this may become the standard Double-2-Block System

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I’m tempted to pause working on 2704 for a bit and build out a palace to try this with my Shadow images. 884 total sub-loci to learn is easier than 1352 new images… But of course, ultimately I want both, haha!

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I see that you really like the idea. I wasn’t expecting anyone would apply it that soon haha. Let me know if it works in practice.

Can the D2B 2-card system be modified to use just 676 total images (could be a mix of person and object images) and use this spacial coding to designate the 4 possible pairs?

So instead of person/object determining the same color / opposite color of the suits, and instead of variable image stacking determining red or black… You could build 26 palace areas with 2 loci each, 2 sub-loci at each of those and use that to tell you the suit pair. Values are calculated as normal in D2B.

Is that viable? Or am I missing a necessary component of D2B coding that would be lost using this approach?

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I think that is totally viable, either by using 2 loci per region and 2 subloci or having 26 numbered loci and 4 subloci each.

Since I like having at least two distinct lists for numbers, I’d still go with normal Double-2-Block, especially now that it became a 3-card system.

If someone got a single list, though, your idea would be perfect for them.

Btw, I finished learning all my 3-digit images today, so I may apply this system very soon as well.

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Nice!

I think this is what makes it accessible for a much wider audience. I don’t think its very common for people to have full 3-digit P/O lists. But with an existing 3-digit list of any type, spacial encoding can stand in for that detail and give people a workable 2-card system. More loci needed, but I think that is a trade most would be willing to make to avoid having to use VIS. And the fact that its just a single image at each loci is really really appealing.

26 areas x 2 loci each x 2 sub-loci = 104 sub-loci to pre-assign. That is very attainable, even across multiple palaces. You could fairly easily work up four practice deck palaces to use.

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@Mike4 I may expound on this a bit in a new post in the D2B thread. Or should we make a new thread that is just called “Updated 2-Card System via Spacial Encoding - only 676 images needed”?

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I think we can add a post to the existent thread since I already made two updates there (changing the meanings of primary/secondary numbers and adding jokers).

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Btw, if you got just 676 images you can still apply this 3-card system. You just need to exchange the Person/Object distinction and the Agent-Observer strategy for @Honje 's semantic suits strategy.

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expanding brain" Meme Templates - Imgflip

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LMAO :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

Application of “Variable Spacial Encoding” (VSE) in the D2B system to create a 2-card system from just 676 images explained here:

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The more I think about this, I feel like my preferred way would be to use “In Front,” “Behind,” “On Top,” and “Underneath” as my spacial suit designators as they are pretty clearly different. I think I’d find myself swapping the lefts and rights, especially if there isn’t a really stand out feature to be able to visualize which side the image is on. Assuming the loci is a 3-dimensional thing, it would have all of those properties available to it and would provide good interaction options.

sandman in front of mailbox is trying to mail letters
sandman behind is trying to hide, and maybe carving his name into back of the post
sandman above is sitting on top of it, meditating in a zen pose
sandman below is actually impaled into the ground by the post.

I dunno. I think each loci could provide four options for distinct interaction and as long as you followed a consistent rule for which one represented which suit, it could be ok to make them dependent on the structure of the loci.

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Yeah, I think different divisions may appeal more to different people. The only crucial thing is that they are distinguishable to the memory athlete.

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Ok, I just memorized a deck of cards for the first time in my life. I applied this 3-Card System together with the Double-2-Block System.

I struggled a lot; however, it was all due to the fact I can’t remember all images from my 3-digit list fast enough. The Variable Spacial Encoding itself is amazing, even better than I expected. I thought that maybe the subloci would confuse me, but they didn’t at all! Moreover, Agent-Observer strategy is awesome too! I also thought this would cause trouble, but it felt extremely natural and easy to remember whether I was interacting or observing the locus.

I took 27:45,60 to encode and got 16 cards wrong. 90% of that time was just me staring at the last pair trying to remember what was the image from my 3-digit list, and my mistakes were mostly on the Double-2-Block System rules.

In summary, I’m extremely excited for this 3-card system. It was easy and memorable. Now I’m gonna drill on my 3-digit PO and on D2B’s rules.

Also, when I was building the memory palace, I notice a few things, which I’m going to share later.

Now I can say I’m the first person to use a 3-card system :smiley:

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The fact that you jumped right into a 3-card system for your first ever card attempt is so wild hahaha, congrats!!!

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Was thinking about the potential time savings going from 26 images for a 2-card system to 17 images for the 3-card.

Going by my personal best of 59 seconds, thats 2.27 seconds to visualize and place each image for a 2-card system.

For a 3-card, the reduction down to 17 images allows for 3.47 seconds per image to keep my time at 59 seconds.

Thats a gain of 1.2 seconds per image.

The million dollar question is, would that be enough additional time to go through the more complex process to recognize the loci for the first card and apply VSE to set the scene for the card image?

It may be…

One way to work on VSE would be to take 17 cards at random and use them as cues to mentally jump to their correct loci. Don’t worry about extra card images or anything, just see how quickly you can zero in on the right loci. If this can speed up to the point where it only takes 1.2 seconds to associate each card to it’s loci, then the speed matching is set.

Realistically though, there would probably be additional speed gains in the pair encoding part of this too. I’d imagine only having a single image at each loci that only interacts with that loci would encode faster than making the interactions needed with a 2-card between multiple card images and also accounting for the loci in that interaction.

Recall-wise, as long as you can find your imagery within the expansive new set of loci, image recall should be very easy. I’d imagine accuracy would improve a lot with this system over a standard 2-card.

Lots of upside here.

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