Question: single and double digit pegs

General Memory Chat
1

Hi, all

I’m just going through with anki and creating a 00-99 peg list. I use the basic/standard major system for 0-9 (ie not modified like Derren Brown or others). So when I create a single digit list, what should I do?

My double digit list is mostly single syllables (as much as possible). I just use things that are visual and hold meaning to me.

Thanks all,

She___Wolf

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3

I have 0-99 list of PAO (my own version)

I’ve integrated Dominic system for digits (0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9)—>(o,a,b,c,d,e,s,g,h,n), sort of associative array but the system is great, check out if you like.

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9

yes, I meant 00 TO 99

kindly check out Dominic’O Brian’s system and use memory palace for awesome recall from memory

suppose 007834
for me, it is 00->Osama ->person
78->breaking->action
34->ski board

it is Osama breaking ski board->00 78 34

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10

Oh, see now I though it was best to use a double digit (00-99) and separate single (0-9) list. So, my 00 is SAS. How would I then associate that with 0 unless I have a seperate association?

You’ve said above that you use the Dominic system. I’m not familiar with this. From my understanding (I’ve just started) it uses vowels that are vicually similar).

11

0 is o
1 is a
2 is b
3 is c
4 is d
5 is e
6 is s
7 is g
8 is h
9 is n

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13

I know it’s sounds, like vowel then constant or something (I don’t get breaking). Seven is vowel e? 8 is diphthong ei?

Oh! I remeber, lol. Seventh letter.

See, this is what I want. I want to start out correct and have a system in place before I get going.

15

hey, this site restricts new user reply count

I created a new account with a new email lol, it is not a great place to chat, so if you consider, we can use public chatrooms

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16

If you want to chat, click a user profile and then the “Message” button. It will work as a real-time chat and the posts won’t go into a moderation queue for spam.

In the public part of the forum, it’s ideal to post single posts and then edit them if you want to change something. That way people don’t have to scroll through too many messages to get to the main points.

Edit: it looks like your posts are going into moderation because you’re using two different accounts in this thread, and one of them is still new.

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17

Got ya. I’m a little busy right now but I’ll be back :+1::wink:

18

Yeah, I get that. I’ll try and DM next time if its ongoing.

Ta,

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19

It’s okay to write as much as you want out here in the public forum — I was just explaining why I merged some of the comments above. (I should have been more clear in my last message.)

Posts from new user accounts get held in moderation, so if someone is trying to send a series of rapid chat messages in the public area, but their posts are getting caught in moderation, then sending a private chat message will solve the problem.

20

Ok, so I have a sperate list 00-99 that I’m still working on.

I just completed a single dogit association list too (this is for simplicity)

0 Psyduck (Pokémon)
1 Dam (a dam)
2 Nappa (DBZ)
3 Monster-truck
4 Robbin (from Batman)
5 Link (Zelda)
6 Chimp (a grinning chimpanzee)
7 Gonk (something we used to hang on a Christmas tree, looks like a penguin)
8 Fox (foxes are great)
9 Bambi (Character from an old Disney film)

So my understanding with my simple approach is that I learn the above (I’m using anki) the the single and double digits will be associated in my head without having to think.

21

Sorry I can’t edit the previous comment. So the issue for me is (besides the technique of memorising my peg list, ie memory palace or spaced repitition), will I confuse myself having a single digit list? They both use the major system with consonants, but the single digit I take only the first, the double digits I take the first two. Do you see? I need to remeber basically this 0-9 the most then 00-99 will flow more easily as it’s always just the first two.

I hope this makes sense. Maybe I’m overthinking.

22

Rather set up you PAO system as a double digit system to start off with. There are several choices in systems encoding you can choose from as you are using a Major System Traditional encoding, I suggest that you choose your cast of characters using First Name + Surname of each character in your number list 00 - 99. There are full examples that you can find on the forum using the search engine. For Example:

00 = SS = Sylvester Stallone
01 = SD = Scooby-Doo
02 = SN = Stevie Nicks
03 = SM = Steve Martin
04 = SR = Seth Rogen
05 = SL = Sophia Loren
06 = SJ = Samuel Jackson
07 = SK = Stephen King
08 = SF = Sigmund Freud
09 = SB = Sleeping Beauty
10 = DS = Donna Summer etc.

Obviously choose your cast of characters that resonate well with you. This does require an investment of time but ultimately when you are competent, you want to be able to count in people.

There are search engines to assist you finding suitable people 00 - 99 such as the link I have given below:

I have devised a PAO system of 00 - 99 characters using the Dominic System if you decide to rather go that route. Whatever system you finally choose to use, own it and change the characters around that don’t work for you. My Dominic Systems PAO is as follows:

00 Ozzie Osbourne Biting off Bats Head
01 OAts (Quakerman) Cooking Oats
02 Otto Bismarck Polishing Pickle Point
03 Oliver Cromwell Burning Warts
04 Officer Dibble Pointing Finger
05 Old Edwardian Rowing Canoe
06 Omar Shariff Grooming Camel
07 Organ Grinder Grinding Organ
08 Oliver Hardy Doffing Bowler Hat
09 Olivia Newton John Piercing Earlobe
10 Annie Oakley Aiming Rifle
11 Archie Andrews Drinking Milkshake
12 Anne Boleyn Tipping Executioner
13 Al Capone Gunning Tommy Gun
14 Jesus Carrying Cross
15 Albert Einstein Writing Chalkboard
16 A Schwarzenegger Curling Dumb Bells
17 Ali G Rolling Joint
18 Adolf Hitler Saluting Nazi Flag
19 Amanda Nunes Duck Taping MMA Gloves
20 Barrack Obama Waving USA Flag
21 Buzz Aldrin G-Forcing Buzz Lightyear
22 Bugs Bunny Chomping Carrot
23 BC Peddling Unicycle
24 Bart Dias Weighing Anchor
25 Brian Epstein Listening LP’s
26 Bart Simpson Skateboarding Skateboard
27 Bear Grylls Eating Grubs
28 Benny Hill Riding Milkcart
29 Bridget Nielson Modelling Camera
30 Conan O’Brien Combing Quiff
31 Captain America Throwing Shield
32 Charlie Brown Place Kicking American Football
33 Charlie Chaplin Swinging Cane
34 Crocodile Dundee Wrestling Crocodile
35 Clint Eastwood Pistol Whipping Pistol
36 Caster Semenya Kissing Gold Medal
37 Che Guevarra Smoking Cuban Cigar
38 Captain Haddock Puffing Pipe
39 Chuck Norris Karate Kicking Kick Bag
40 Dominic O’Brien Memorizing Playing Cards
41 David Attenborough Filming Wildlife
42 David Bowie Face-painting Lightening Bolt
43 Davie Crockett Throwing Bowie Knife
44 Donald Duck Twerking Tail-Feathers
45 Dame Edna Hair Spraying Purple Wig
46 Donna Summer Disco-dancing Disco-Ball
47 Dizzy Gillespie Blowing Trumpet
48 David Hasselhoff Wheelspinning Kitt (Car)
49 David Niven Ascending (Going up) Hotair Balloon
50 EeyOre Grazing Thistles
51 Edward Asner Slapping French Teacher
52 Emma Bunton Sucking Lollipop
53 Eric Clapton Crying Teardrops Heaven
54 Ellen Degeneras Silly Dancing Leather Chair
55 Eben Etzebeth Flexing Bicep
56 Edward Scissorhands Cutting Hair Shears
57 Eddie Grant Electrifying Avenue
58 Edmond Hilary Summiting Mount Everest
59 Eskimo Nell Sliding down Igloo
60 Scarlett O’Hara Fainting Staircase
61 Steve Austin Holding Aloft WWE Belt
62 Seve Ballesteros Chipping Sandbunker
63 Santa Clause Ringing Bell
64 Sammy Davis Tap-dancing Tap Shoes
65 Sheena Easton Singing Microphone
66 Sylvester Stallone Sparring Carcasses
67 Steffi Graff Smashing Tennis Racket
68 Stephen Hawkins Joy Sticking Wheelchair
69 Stevie Nicks Pirouetting Ballet Shoes
70 George Orwell Shovelling Farmyard ■■■■
71 Georgios Armani Sewing Red Ballroom Gown
72 Gary Bailey Clapping Goalkeeper Gloves
73 George Clooney Pouring Coffee
74 Gerard Depardieu Dualling Sword
75 Gareth Edwards Torpedoing Rugby Ball
76 Gene Simmons Licking Tongue
77 Galileo Galilea Looking through Telescope
78 George Harrison Strumming Sitar
79 Greg Norman Spearfishing Great White Shark
80 HO Pole Dancing Money
81 Joker (HA) Juggling Balls
82 Halie Berry Purring Leather Catsuit
83 Hansie Cronje Batting Cricket Bat
84 Humpty Dumpty Falling Off Wall
85 HE man (HE HE…) Cuddeling Tiger (Cringer)
86 Homer Simpson Drooling Donuts
87 Hugh Grant Being Mugged-Shot Mug-Board
88 Harry Houdini Escaping Straight-Jacket
89 Horatio Nelson Ramrodding Canon
90 Nigel Owens Red Carding Red Card
91 Neil Armstrong Moonwalking Moon
92 Napoleon Bonaparte Rearing Up White Stallion
93 Nadia Comaneci Summersaulting Balance Beam
94 Natalie du Toit Diving Diving Block
95 Noel Edmonds Phoning The Banker
96 Nicole Scherzinger Picking Hawaain Flower
97 Natalie Glebova Crowning Tiara
98 Nigel Herbert Wheelieing Motorbike
99 Nick Nolte Hammering Eye Socket

Good Luck with devising whatever system you finally decide upon using.

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23

Oh man… I would love to know this site before, it would make my life easily to ocmplete my PAO.

Thanks for sharing!

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24

Digging a little deeper down the Dominic O’Brien “rabbit hole”, I uncovered this “Gem” on the forum:

The list: https://artofmemory.com/files/forum/947/initials.txt

The original thread is:

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25

How do you say single digits? Say… 892? What would this be?

26

If you do a word search under PAO (Person - Action - Object) you will unravel a treasure trove of useful information to get to any sequence of numbers as the PAO System puts a sequence of random 6 digit numbers at each loci for you. In your example given, I would merely use a PA system (Person Action) system where I would throw away the last digit as a PA System gives you 4 digits. For illustrative purposes, I merely double the last digit in the sequence of 3 digits you gave me, so your 893 becomes 8933. Grouping into 2 sets of 2 digits each for a PA system from my Dominic cast of characters gives me #89 Person = Horatio Nelson. #33 Action will be #33 Person = Charlie Chaplin (Action: Swinging his Cane). so the 4 digit number of 8933 translates into:

Horatio Nelson - Swinging his Cane as your compound image. You put this image into a locus and problem solved. As you only wanted the first three digits of the 4 given, you merely discard the last digit when you decipher you picture or image back into the original number you gave, being #893. Easy as that!

image
image646×633 65.3 KB

27

So in order to get single digits I switch from PAO to PA?

ps what are the advantages of the PAO version of Dominic method vs Major System?

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There is seemingly endless debate on “which system is better” and you’ll find proponents of every one on here. You’ll need to try them out and see which makes the most sense to you as things click differently for each person. Ultimately the system is less important than the fluency that you’re going for. Once you’re fluent, the system kind of falls away. That being said, I think that some systems do a better job at getting you to fluency faster and in the process are more geared towards building better practice habits for associating imagery.

The goal is to be able to see a number and reflexively read it as it’s intended association with no conversion steps in between. This is why I prefer the Major System single word/name approach to building PAO lists. If you use the major system phonetics to create a set of people, then a set of actions, then a set of objects, with just a little practice you can literally read the numbers directly as those words. This is where I see the major system having a huge advantage over the Dominic approach.

The weakness of the Dominic system in my opinion is that it really only provides a way to generate the people names directly from the number to letter conversions, and those names are usually in the form of initials. This adds extra conversion steps when learning the system. If you need to decode to initials and then decode those initials to a first and last name, to me that is more work that just reading a single name via major. I can associate 64 with CHeR directly in major without any extra steps. The other problem with Dominic is that it usually forces a traditional building approach to the actions and objects based on the person, not directly from the number. Again, the ideal result is a direct association of the P and the A and the O to the NUMBER, not to the person first and then from that person to the number. Thats an extra step that makes it harder to build those independent element to number associations.

A PAO should be learned by associating each element independently of each other, directly to the number. So that 64 for example, is CHeR when it’s a person, OR it’s CHeeRing when it’s an action, OR it’s a CHaiR when it’s an object. It shouldn’t be learned as “CHeR CHeeRing for a CHaiR” because that is reinforcing associations between the elements and not directly with the number. If you have to make the association by reading CHaiR and then thinking back to which person is linked to the chair to get to Cher, and then try to recall that Cher is associated with 64, this is forcing you through many extra steps that don’t help accomplish that independent direct association.

More on this idea here:

A single digit list is great for starting out and learning phonetics, but you’ll quickly see its serious limitations. Biggest one is that you have no data compression at all. One digit is encoded into one visual element. The only advantage over just rote memorizing the actual numbers is that you can more easily visualize them, but there are still the same number of elements to hold in your mind.

As for how to encode a number like 892, if you only have a 1 digit system you need to encode and perfectly recall all 3 elements, very inefficient because there is no compression. You’d end up with something like Vai Peeing on a heN via major system PAO structure.

By stepping up to a 2-digit system you can now encode at a 2:1 compression. Every element that you use to create your mental scenes contains 2 digits. This is leaps and bounds ahead of the single digit effectiveness. The tradeoff of course is that you need to assign and learn 100 sets of associations, one for each 2-digit number, but really thats a small cost to pay upfront for great returns going forward.

By combining your 1 and 2-digit system for sequences with odd numbers of numbers, your compression ratio is better. You can encode 892 with just two elements and you have more freedom with how to construct your scene. You could break it up as 8-92 or 89-2, whichever elements you like better. So Vai is interacting with a PeN (8-92) or FaBio is interacting with a heN (89-2.) The action then becomes up to you and you’re not limited to the arbitrary visuals assigned by a strict PAO. So this way you get a 3:2 compression ratio and a more intuitive scene construction. Pretty good.

If you eventually go for a 3 digit system, now you just need a single element for this sequence. 892 is FaBiaN in my 3-digit system. Thats it. A 3:1 compression ratio, with just a single element animated however I want which represents all three digits. I can encode 6 digits very quickly with almost no worry about inaccurate recall by simply having two elements interact in a memorable way. Something like 525753 becomes LioNeL GoLLuM. Lionel Messi is on hands and knees hissing about his “prescious.” With a 1 digit system, the visual would contain 6 elements that all need to link and be recalled accurately and in the correct order. Of course, a 3-digit system requires 1000 pre-built associations to learn, so a significantly larger investment up front. How far you go depends on your goals and your tolerance for the grunt work!

Hope this helps or at least gives you some more food for thought!

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