TIM SYSTEM: development and training journal

EDIT: I think I’ve settled on a name… The “Translated Index Method,” or “TIM” System. Kinda rolls nicely off the tongue, eh?

I’ve created a document in google sheets listing the complete method and instructions, along with a tab that lists every possible card pair along with their phonetic assignments and associated numbers. This can be used to fill in your own list if you wish to use this system. At some point, I’ll upload an Anki deck for this as well, similar to my other projects so that you can use it as a template and fill it in with your entries.

The link to the google folder is here: TIM System - Google Drive

UPDATE: 11/19/24, I’ve scrapped the “first-person action” and the “starting vowel” sets completely and assigned those suit combinations to the V and F sounds respectively! I THINK this is now the final form. Every suit combination now has a specific single starting consonant sound and all entries evoke “noun” images! The google doc has been updated. (The “first-person action” method is still there in a hidden “old method” tab, if anyone wants to play around with it, but I think this singular consonant approach is cleaner.)


OLD POST: Please scroll down to THIS POST for an update on the phonetic and structural assignments that I’ve settled on! If you want to see how the process of creating and updating the system went, feel free to read the earlier posts, but there will be some key details that differ from the final form. I’m hiding details on old posts so as to avoid confusion for people looking to understand the system.


Old Details

Been marinating on card stuff recently (what else is new haha), and I started messing around with building a structure to accommodate a “true” 2-card system where all 2704 pairs have unique images and phonetic structures associated with them.

In the past, I built out a “pseudo” 2-card system where there were 2704 unique images, but there were shared phonetics, so only 1352 phonetic structures. Now, normally it’s a positive thing to be able to reduce the requirements for learning a system, but as I worked with this structure, I realized a drawback with it. Having shared phonetics but different images caused a delay when reading each pair. I’d have to discern which “type” of pair it was, and then lock into the correct translation before the right image would spring to mind. This was enough to prevent instantaneous fluent recognition and was what ultimately caused me to abandon it in favor of my custom 2-block system.

I’ve always had a motivation to return to the challenge of figuring out a “true” 2-card system and have occasionally revisited the structure of Ben and others, but they all either required a fairly big departure from Major or had more complex structural rules than I wanted. My goal was to find a system that was sound-based, used as much traditional Major encoding as possible, had a singular reading structure so that every pair was read in the same way, and that remained consistent in terms of values always mapping to the same sounds.

Nothing that I could find hit all of these points.

So, I decided to try to come up with my own. This is a work in progress so I’m not sure if it ultimately will be able to be completed, but I’m optimistic so far. I think it’s a fairly original idea, but if it has been thought of already, apologies, no plagiarism intended. Here’s what I have at the moment.


Phonetic Structure:

  1. Read the suit-combo phonetic
  2. Read the card1 value phonetic
  3. Read the card2 value phonetic

SUIT-COMBO PHONETICS
The eight combos that start with Black Suits, and the two “double red” combos (:hearts: :hearts: and :diamonds: :diamonds:) are mapped to Major System numbers (with ONE split exception, the number 1 which is traditionally phonetically represented as T/TH/D. I split these associations and picked one Black-First suit combo to associate with T/TH, and one Red-Black suit combo to associate with D.) Which combo gets which number sound is arbitrary. I used mappings that I’m familiar with from my time with the Shadow System, but you can pick any number to associate with any suit combo.

The remaining Red-Black suit combos get mapped to Vowel sounds, A - E - I - O - U/Y. These include long and short sounds. I’ll provide examples below. By including vowels as representational “first” sounds this imposes a small limitation on word construction. It now matters if your word starts with a vowel. So while previously you might be able to use something like “icy road” to represent 041 and disregard the i sound, now that i matters. Only start words with vowels when you mean to, for words in those suit combo lists.

Suit-combo phonetic list:
:spades: :spades: - S/Z (0)
:spades: :hearts: - T/Th (1) (note that this does not include the D sound typically mapped to 1 via major. The D is used for another suit combo.)
:clubs: :spades: - N (2)
:spades: :diamonds: - M (3)
:diamonds: :diamonds: - R (4)
:clubs: :hearts: - L (5)
:spades: :clubs: - J/CH/SH (6)
:clubs: :clubs: - K/G (7)
:hearts: :hearts: - F/V (8)
:clubs: :diamonds: - P/B (9)

:hearts: :spades: - A (as in “Ace”, or “At”)
:hearts: :diamonds: - E (as in “Eel” or “Ed”)
:diamonds: :spades: - I (as in “Ice” or “Ick”)
:hearts: :clubs: - O (as in “Oh” or “Odd”)
:diamonds: :clubs: - U/Y (as in “You” or “Uh” or “OOf”)
:diamonds: :hearts: - D (here is the only starting phonetic split from traditional major sounds.)

VALUE PHONETICS:
There are 13 values for playing cards. Ace through 10 can easily and logically map to numerical values, but the big hurdle is always what to do with the picture cards (Jack, Queen, and King.) In this system, I add one additional phonetic that Major doesn’t typically use, and I split phonetics from two numerical major associations to account for the others. Here’s how it works:

(Note: Value-sound mapping is the same whether the value is for the first or second card.)

Ace - T/TH/D
2 - N
3 - M
4 - R
5 - L
6 - CH/SH (typically this mapping includes the J "Juh"sound, but I’ve split this off so that J maps to Jack)
7 - G (typically this mapping includes the “K” or “CK” sound, but I’ve split this off so that K maps to King)
8 - F/V
9 - P/B
10 - S/Z (when looking at the ten, disregard the 1 and focus on the 0.)
Jack - J
Queen - W (here is the non-traditional non-major sound. By including this sound, we impose a limitation… W’s are no longer “free sounds” so be careful in your word construction!)
King - K

I chose to split J and K for Jack and King simply because those are literally the letters that appear on the cards, making it (hopefully) as simple as possible to translate and read in real-time when memorizing. This may come at a cost of more challenging word construction, but I think that it’s worth it.

Here are a couple examples for how a pair is read:


Suit combo is first, :spades: :hearts: is read as “T/Th”
Then the first card value: 6 = “CH/SH”
Then the second card value: Jack = “J”

so T/Th-CH/SH-J… maybe “TouCH Juggler” shortened to two syllables as “TouCH Jug.” Mental image can be something like this:

Here’s a second example:


:diamonds: :hearts: = D
Jack = J
6 = SH/CH

so D-J-SH/CH maybe something like “DodGe CHarger” or “DodGe Char” for it’s two-syllable truncation… a classic muscle car:

One last example:


:hearts: :spades: = A
9 = P/B
5 = L

This is an easy one… “APPLe” (maybe make it a poison apple to boost its memorability!)

I’m aware that this system is less syllabally efficient than a CVC like @Zoomy’s Ben System or like @LociInTheSky’s Trochee System, but for me personally, I can accept the occasionally slightly longer sub-vocalization as a trade-off for this structural consistency. As I’ve found with my other systems, the more familiar the words and images become, the easier it is to truncate that active sub-vocalization and trigger the visual after just the first sound or so.

I haven’t worked yet on filling in the complete word list, so I’m not sure how the new vowel-first entries will go. Based on my last three large system builds though, I’m pretty confident that I can come up with associations.

One last note… Because this structure uses all 10 major assignments as starting values across suit combos, it contains a complete 3-digit major list. This means that if you already have a 3-digit major list, you can directly import all 1000 associations and if you have been wanting to learn a 3-digit major number system, you can kill two birds with one stone with this system. (The vowel-first entries provide multiple options for every number in a 2-digit major list as well!)

So… there it is! Hopefully that explains things. Feedback is welcome!

5 Likes

Sound great with the true 2 card system we don’t have problems with distinguinsh the black pair version with Red first version but i think it takes a lot of Time but i’m still aware because top competitor like Alex, Johansson and Katie using 2 block card system. But we can try Ben system

The unknown variable of image stacking and the fluctuating scene size / number of loci per deck is the only downside of the 2-block for me. The thing that I REALLY like with the true 2704 approach is being able to just use 2 elements per loci which keeps each scene simple and you’re guaranteed 13 loci per deck so you can build and practice consistent palace runs for cards.

I always say it really is more about how much commitment you have to practice than which system you use. I should probably stick to drilling my custom 2-block system and just get over the variable annoyance, but I can’t resist trying to optimize… guess I just like tinkering with system designs too much!

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Yeah with Ben system with can do only 2 image in 1 loci not just like shadow system the image per loci is not consistent. I want to know if there’s a sheet for the true 2 card system

Are you looking for complete word lists or just template worksheets?

There are worksheets on the forum for Ben’s. I don’t have a filled in worksheet for this one yet as its still a work in progress, my other pseudo 2-card is just a P/O list with 1352 of each where people represent the black-first pairs and objects represent the red-first ones (based on the Shadow System construction rules.)

It’s always best to build your own words wherever possible so you can take advantage of your pre-wired associations.

2 Likes

Doesn’t that make it a true 2-card system, if you’re using the P vs O distinction to encode the missing bit of information in regard to suit value rather than simply for image diversity?

I mean, a 2-block system is also a 2-card system, but you know what I mean

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Not exactly.

With that system, there are 2704 unique images (one for each pair) BUT, and here’s where there’s an important distinction, there are only 1352 phonetic structures.

So for example:

[A:spades:][2:spades:] and [A:hearts:][2:hearts:] both have the same phonetic structure (S/Z (suit) + T/D/TH (value1) + N (value2)

The :spades: :spades: pair takes those phonetics and makes a person word, lets say “SaTaN.”

The :hearts: :hearts: pair takes those phonetics and makes an object word, lets say “SToNe.”

So, when pairs are revealed, instead of just looking and reading a unique structure for every pair, I have to actively consider whether its a red or black, person or object, then the actual pronunciation may be different depending on what that is, even though the phonetic structure is the same. There are some instances where its shared, like “SeSaMe” where the object is a bunch of sesame seeds and the person is Big Bird from Sesame Street, but even with those, there is active attention that needs to be placed to decipher if the pair should represent the person or the object. So its still a kind of 2-block system, but the “block distinction” is whether the image is a person or an object rather than if it’s the last element at a locus.

What I call a “true” 2-card system is one that has no extra active translation or conversion steps. You see a pair, read its unique phonetic, and visualize its unique image.

Hope that clarifies?

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It’s early days for me using a Shadow System but I do agree that variable image stacking can be a bit of a pain. Honestly my heart sinks a bit every time across like, my fourth red-first pair in a row (which in my system means “keep stacking!”) - like a “Really? I’ve got to keep piling stuff on?”-kind-of-feeling. At the moment it’s slightly sullying the enjoyment of the task, for me.

I’d be interested to know if you experienced the same thing and if this feeling ever went away as you got more practised?

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This exact thing.

It almost gave me a sense of weird dread when starting a deck run, because of how many times I’d be cruising along and then hit a run of 4 or 5 or 6 in the middle/end of the deck and totally blow the flow. I’d have a nice tidy scene constructed then need to find some way to keep extending the action to incorporate the new element. I’d start deck runs wondering if I was going to flame out because of it. I’m not sure if it really ever went away. I think when I finally hit fast times I got lucky with short scenes. I don’t think I ever got a top 10 personal best time when a long run appeared.

This was the major impetus to build my pseudo 2-card PO system. It felt MUCH nicer to do actual deck runs with it. It was SO great to know that every loci would have 2 elements. It was SO easy to recall scenes. BUT it was noticeably slower for recognition because of that dual association for each phonetic. Plus, I knew I wanted to move away from Shadow’s clunky picture card phonetic rules.

Hence the quest for a custom true 2-card system!

3 Likes

Thanks, that’s really interesting. Given that I practise memory primarily for enjoyment, it does feel a bit odd to be using a system that fills me with dread in the way you describe! :laughing:

I haven’t understood the pseudo-2 card system yet - perhaps I’ll have a look at it.

Ah okay, I’ve got it! :slightly_smiling_face: Well explained.

2 Likes

That distinction does seem internally consistent

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Old configuration details hidden to avoid confusion. Feel free to read if you're interested in the development process of building and refining the system, but the final structural and phonetic details are further down!

As I’m working on filling in words, I’m wondering if splitting J off of CH/SH and splitting K and G are the best ways to go. On the one hand, I really like having J for Jack and K for King, but I wonder if there are “easier” splits to make from other major phonetics, like splitting T/TH/D and P/B?

I guess I’ll have to kind of wait and see if there are just too many excessively clunky constructions.

So far, I’ve filled in ALL of the :spades: :spades: entries, and am only missing 11 out of the 169 :spades: :hearts: entries. (And have only been only working on it for a couple hours.)

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Old configuration details hidden to avoid confusion. Feel free to read if you're interested in the development process of building and refining the system, but the final structural and phonetic details are in the next post!

I may change Queens in the second position to be silent instead of W sound. No real problem with W as a 2nd syllable, so I’d probably keep that, but these “ending in W” entries are really cumbersome…

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(November 2024, Update) Eliminated the “vowel first” suit combo and replaced it with V. Added a hard-G suit sound. Also reassigned F suit sound.

SUIT-COMBO PHONETICS
:spades: :spades: - S (0)
:spades: :hearts: - T (1)
:hearts: :spades: - D (alt1)
:clubs: :spades: - N (2)
:spades: :diamonds: - M (3)
:hearts: :hearts: - R (4)
:clubs: :hearts: - L (5)
:spades: :clubs: - J (6)
:clubs: :clubs: - K (7)
:diamonds: :diamonds: - G (as in Good) (alt7)
:hearts: :diamonds: - F (8)
:diamonds: :hearts: - V (alt8)
:clubs: :diamonds: - P (9)
:diamonds: :clubs: - B (alt9)
:diamonds: :spades: - W
:hearts: :clubs: - H

VALUE PHONETICS:
Ace (read as 1) - T
2 - N
3 - M
4 - R
5 - L
6 - J/CH/SH
7 - K
8 - F
9 - P
10 (read as 0) - S/Z
Jack - D
Queen - B
King - V (in first value position), or SILENT if in 2nd value position

NOTE: Having the Kings silent in the second position means that those pairs will be associated with 2-digit numbers/words. These words should be constructed so as to NOT have any trailing “disregarded” consonants so that they can be clearly recognized as having the silent second King value.

2 Likes

That’s really help Tim you always help to figure it out what is the best Thanks

You’ve inspired me, Tim - I’m in the process of adapting my (incomplete) shadow system into a two-block one. So far I’m finding that, whilst it’s obviously more work, it’s not loads more work. Often the ‘object’ part of my PO is just a thing that the person would have on them (like a specific weapon or hat, for example). Or else the person flows naturally from the object (e.g. ‘hoop’ is either a woman spinning hula hoops, or just the hula hoop itself).

I know this is off-topic as you are now recreating your system yet again! But thought you might like to know

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I just stop at 3

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I’m curious about this as I’ve heard Braden and Lance, and now you, mention it…

How are you keeping track of which loci have stacks of three that naturally end (with whatever indicator your 2-block system uses, like red-first suit combo or whatever), and which stacks of three you cut short?

I’ve heard talk of adding some kind of indicator imagery or property to the loci or the scene to differentiate, but I never landed on one that worked well. It felt like it added too much extra analysis time to a run and extra intentional imagery that I needed to make sure I checked on recall.

I’d love to be able to ensure that I could max out at three, just don’t want the process to get too muddy.

Appreciate any insight into your process!

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I’d like to know this too @katiek !

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