I have been utilizing the memory palace with great success at work but now running into some issues. I was hoping to get help or ideas.
In short: I am finding the images I have fades over time (3 weeks) until I can no longer remember it. Some memory images fade faster (1 week).
I have a client heavy role (support about 70 clients) and also have to be technically astute in multiple subjects. I have been memorizing technical information in my memory palace by places images as I walk into work. These have generally stuck pretty well until about a month passes by. The technical information is very number and rule heavy.
With my client specific topics, I have been trying to place images to remember what the client and I spoke about. I use their office or house as the memory palace. This really has not been working.
If anyone has any techniques to make the images stick, that would be great.
This tool has been fantastic. Even though I can’t recall every image, I have been able to internalize a lot of the info. Fantastic tool. Wish they thought this in school.
I was lucky that I stumbled upon memory techniques and spaced repetition before going to university All these years before I knew these techniques were just a circle of memorizing with rote memorization and then forget the information within a few weeks (sometimes even days).
Spaced repetition really works. I memorized the Articles of the Swiss Constitution in January 2019; I can still recall the key contents of all 197 Articles without much effort. I already did 7 repetitions, so the next one should be at the end of november this year. It really helps to make appointments for all reviews, so you never miss one.
As has been suggested Spaced Repetition is the solution, personally I use Anki SRS as that is cross-platform (and free). You could just sit and run through them on a regular basis though, it’s not very optimised, but it will work, anything to refresh the items in their locations.
Spaced Repetition is the key!!! You have to encode data with Memory Palace and put those loci/data/mental images in a Spaced Repetition tool like Anki for long time retention!
Oh I didn’t understand that. So once you encode , those mental images go into anki?
I thought I could just revisit in my memory palace on a scheduled basis.
Is it up to preference ? I ask because my bandwidth is low and I am on the road a lot. I could find time to put my images into AnkiApp but I would prefer just to revisit the images in my head. I suppose it might be just preference.
Thanks for this - I had not considered putting images/loci into anki.
Humans have successfully been using memory techniques—including massive memory palaces—for thousands of years. You do not need to use Anki or any other assistive software.
You can completely ignore any type of SRS software like Anki,as the previous commentator said. You can just create a ‘personal scheduling system’ for reviewing your Memory Palace time to time. And that will work,too. Your choice,your preference.
I recommend SRS softwares like Anki,because they automate things for me. Besides, softwares work like a ‘Database’ of knowledge! Also,you can adjust the ‘scheduling times and topics’ as you like!
Mnemonists of ancient time didn’t have any idea of “Spacing technique”(which is a scientifically valid theory). If they knew about spacing,they might use it…They used “Memory Palaces” and they reviewed those palaces a lot(some,I found,obsessively). With Spacing technique,they could have saved a lot of time and energy reviewing MP!
I personally use an excel-sheet that tells me when to review. But it only tells me what (in a very general way, for example “Articles 1-100 law xyz”) to review and when. I haven’t tried anki yet, but it might be a possibility to just put “law xy, Articles 1 - 50” (and maybe a hint to what memory palace is used) on a card, so anki would just remind you when to review (but the detailed contents wouldn’t need to be on that card, since you alread have it in a memory palace). I have an additional excel-sheet for all the laws I memorize, so if I ever forget something, I could look it up there (my memory palaces have been reliable so far, so I never had to look it up again, once I learned it and reviewed it with spaced repetition, I can review without the need of any tools).
I have found that mnenomic images in a memory palace fade just as fast as any other information. (i.e. mnemonics follow the same forgetting cure as rote memorized information). A mnemonic can covert what would be difficult information to easy information. As you know, memory palaces are also fantastic for organizing knowledge in a sequence.
When to review is an age old problem. Per the brilliant @LynneKelly’s masterpiece, “The Memory Code” different memorization cultures always had some kind of ritual of reviewing the information. The Buddha’s discourses, for example, would be recited twice a month by the memorizer while at least two other people listened and corrected any errors.
For long term learning I rely on SuperMemo. I am trying to further investigate a hybrid approach between SRS software and Memory Palaces…
I am also experimenting with different ways to use Anki to backup my memory palaces.
I found that after 1,000 loci in long term storage - it became considerably stressful to organize reviewing my palaces. Frankly a lot more stressful than having a lot of items in SuperMemo or Anki. (However, I may just be a poor user of memory palaces).
I also use Anki to review my Memory Palaces and the Locis in the MPs. With Anki,everything is automated and organized-the schedule, the lists of items,etc…
I have struck the same problem with revision. I now have copied indigenous cultures and have a ‘ceremonial’ cycle recorded on a memory device. If I follow it (I am trying!) I will recite everything every few months. Some things more often because they are new, some less because they are fairly well known.
Hey, elitely! Do you have an explanation anywhere on your review process with Anki? I also do it but would love to compare notes. How are your cards organized or divided (i.e. do you have one card per locus, per room/macrostation, per memory palace, per theme…)? Thanks for any further clarification
I use two “Decks” in Anki. One is for “Short Term”,another is for “Long Term”!
The reason is, there are some cards which are very easy to recall. I put these cards in the long term “Deck”.
There are some cards/notes that take times to be encoded in long term memory. I like to review them quite often. So,I put them in the “Short” term deck of Anki…
However,if I find that I can recall the topic of the difficult cards easily,I then transfer the card to long term “Deck”…
It depends on the subject,man…
For example,below is my summary note of the book “The Art of Good Life”. I liked the book so much that I wanted to memorize its main points(52 rules),so I can practice the rules of the book in real life.
What I did was to create ‘mnemonics’ for each rule and put them in the locus of a Memory Palace. There are 52+ locus in the Memory Palace. So,I can easily review those rules in the Memory Palace…
So,I have put all the notes with the mnemonics in my “Notion” database,and put the link in a card of Anki. This way,I review all 52 rules of the book! Anki presents me that link and review the Memory Palace…the rules one by one…I think,if you check out the note of the link you would understand the process clearly…
I have been doing this for almost everything now a days…
I don’t think,‘micro’ notes in Anki are effective. If I created 52 cards for the 52 rules of that book,I might have been able to recall them. But those micro notes would not create deeper understanding in me!
Because I have put the all the rules of the book in one Memory Palace,I can see all the rules,their significance,relation to one another,etc!
Anki is not helpful in the sense that it doesn’t encourage deeper understanding of knowledge…I am trying to change my card style from “micro” to “macro”.
Thanks a lot for your reply! I think I understand. So, you have one locus per point, and depending on the book, you would have more or less points, and you review the entire book when the card prompt appears. My current approach is very similar, but I do divide the books (if I work profoundly in them, in any case, i.e. various notes for every chapter) on chapters and review them separately, each chapter with one note (generally around 12 locus per chapter).
I can imagine the benefit of reviewing the entirety of the book in one go, but I imagine also that it could be very time consuming if one day you need to review a few books with a lot of memorized content (I have books encoded with 14 chapters, each with around 12 locus, so around 170 locus). I also have books with only the most important ideas codified (lets say 12 ideas), and do review the hole book with one card, but for more in depth memorizing I’m afraid it could be too much for the daily reviews. Anyway, it’s encouraging to know that someone has done it successfully that way. For the time being, I think I will experiment with a “reflection” session for the entire book, with a bigger interval, trying not only to recall the information but discuss it and reflect on it, although I’m currently so much more invested in the Zettelkasten method that maybe that would be redundant.
Anyway, thanks again for your answer, it was helpful and though provoking for me. I will also look upon the Mental models book, seems promising! Oh, and beautiful notes you have there, Notion is so visually appealing (I’m totally in love with Remnote for the time being, though). Good luck, Mamunur!
Sometimes,I use “Linking Method” to put five points or more in one Locus,btw…It is not always ‘one point per locus’!
If you see the book “Office Politics”,you would see there are ‘subsections’. I put the subsections/subpoints in one locus! Secrets to Winning at Office Politics
Interestingly,we can simply ignore Memory Palace and just use “Linking+Story” method to encode 50 points of a book!! Pretty fun!
I counted the time for a book to be reviewed. Usually,it takes around 10 minutes or less on average for reviewing 50 locus in a Memory palace. That means,I can review the book “48 Laws of power” within 10 minutes. And some books will take 5 minutes or so…
Honestly I think I need more practice with the linking method. Even when I put more images in one locus I do it more spatially than story-ish (haha), using a geometric arrangement (two images side by side, on a triangle or a “quincunx”, etc.). I would love an example of your linking, maybe with the case you pointed, of Secrets to winning…?
That seems far beyond my current abilities, hahahaha, and I see some disadvantages of that (like the inability to “quote” a memory palace in another memory palace, that I’ve been using quite often, lately), but it sounds really fun indeed.
Yeah, yeah! The problem I’m thinking of is the (few) really important books where I have about 150 locus of them. Even with your speed (which indeed seems great but attainable), that would mean about 30 minutes straight. Of course I don’t have to do it one run, though. It’s very interesting, anyway. Thanks for your comments, I will keep them in mind.
If you don’t mind, which techniques do you use to transform abstract concepts into images? I’ve been experimenting with transforming them into character illustrations and fixating them with Anki, in a sense following the idea of the “rapscallions” that @LynneKelly developed/rescued from various indigenous cultures (as explained in her wonderful book “Memory Craft”), and until now it’s working immensely well. I would love to know how a more experienced mnemonist like you does it.
You should read the books of Mr “Harry Lorayan”. He’s the ‘king’ of using “Linking Method”! He doesn’t recommend Memory Palace. He just uses “Linking Method”. The guy is crazy and my favorite mnemonist! You’ll surely get some different ideas regarding mnemonics!
Memory Palace is always my first choice when it comes to storing data. For a long time,I kept avoiding “Linking method”…But now I mix both techniques up together whenever I can! I love both methods and I think,they both have their strength and weaknesses!
I usually use “rhyming” technique to convert an abstract idea into concrete image,though I apply other techniques whenever necessary…For example…
Thanks, I do think that is a good technique and useful enough. However, filling my mind with “characters” is something I’m enjoying so much now, and I’m curious if someone else has tried a similar approach. I’ll maybe make a post sharing my technique and experience. Thanks again, elitely!
All these years before I knew these techniques were just a circle of memorizing with rote memorization and then forget the information within a few weeks (sometimes even days).
