Controversial, what is the point of mnemonics?

General Memory Chat
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I’m going to open what will probably be a controversial thread, but here it goes.

I’ve got memory palaces, Dominic numbers, POA, memory walks, blah, blah, blah. But here is the kicker. I’ve not found anything useful to do with it. Yes, I memorised PI, but big deal, I’ve never once in 56 years ever had to remember it past 3.14, and I learned that in school, years ago. I’m not religious and have no interest in learning bible verses, or poetry. So is mnemonics a complete waste of time if you’re not planning to do memory competitions or party tricks?

I’ve attempted to use it to remember vocabulary in a 2nd language, but honestly anki and reading books are better (for me) and with anki and books I learn sentences and get words in context, so actually works better for me.

I did the “remember every day of your life” thing, but it was a lot of work and a lot of review with (for me) zero reward. So I stopped after 3 months.

Other things it hasn’t really helped me with are things like; what time did my wife say the plumber was going to arrive? Did I take my blood pressure tablet this morning? Which road do I turn down to get back on the motorway? What did I come into the kitchen for?

The only thing to date where I have had a use for these techniques was trying to recall all my Dominic numbers 0-100 in order to distract me while my dentist was rummaging around in my mouth with metal tools.

So for me, it seems like I’ve bought this new shiny hammer, and now I’m running around desperately looking for a nail.

So what is your experience for using these techniques to remember everyday practical and useful stuff?

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I think your analogy of a hammer is probably apt. Mnemonics are just a tool.

Some people will find it more useful than others. But certainly, for everyday practical use it’s not so important. I would just keep it in your tool box and pull it out when it may come in handy.

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Are you saying you already remember these, or didn’t manage to?

I remember times of things by creating a quick image for it and attach to the event - except my recent dentist appointment, which was helpfully at two-thirty. (If I had a lot of these, I’d have a set of times to which Is attach the images so I didn’t miss any, but that’s not been necessary.)

I also take a tablet every day. I know I did, because I only look at what day it is after I’ve taken it, so if I remember looking at the right day when I think about taking it, I took it today.

A lot of memory technique is awareness and attention. We often, if we think anything, think “yeah, I’ll remember that” - then discover later that we didn’t. By paying attention, forming an image, even if you do nothing with it afterwards, it can help retain information.

For example, I have an image built on 2 2-digit images to remember my other half’s bank card PIN, which I made the first time I needed to use it. I didn’t associate the image with anything, but the circumstances of needing to use it about an hour later that first time (because shopping) cemented it into my mind. I’ve had that image for years now, and only needed to use it four or five times, and only double checked I had it right once - on the second occasion.

I’m memorising passwords at the moment, but only for vital things. I didn’t previously need to, as everything online used to need me to type it in every time and they stuck by rote, but now there are many things online I need access to, and I don’t want to trust everything to Google or browser memory. Things that are less important and I won’t need on the fly, I know I have in an offline password manager with a complicated password itself (the memorised ones are in there, too).

I memorised a route a couple of times, but Google Maps gets me between the main points of my journey, so I just keep in mind those main points in case my phone runs out of battery or something.

Using mnemonics for keeping in mind train arrival times, I find useful, as it’s quicker than bringing up an app. That’s just the station as key image, arrival time before it, platform and next station key image after it if there’s a connecting train to catch. (Ever tried checking your phone app for your train connection, while moving from one train in a station to find another, carrying luggage, realising after the fact that you’ve arrived 12 minutes late for a connection that only had a 15 minute window to begin with? I have, and thankfully that train was running late, too. Now, I just need to move, not fiddle with my phone. Much better.)

But remembering what I went into another room for? I just repeat it to myself, or make hand gestures that suggests it if I’m thinking or might be distracted about something else on the way. Sometimes, I cross my pinky (which I can do without discomfort, due to childhood practice) and put an image onto that. Then I either feel it and it reminds me, or I see it and I remember why. Other people suggested using an elastic band moved from pocket to wrist, or wrist to across the palm. Those usually work.

So there are occasions I find it useful, but like any tool there’s no point using it for everything.

When I have short shopping lists, I just imagine the items in a pile as though I’ve balanced them, and think about how it would or wouldn’t hold up, and that’s all it needs for me to think whether I’ve forgotten anything because there would be holes in the pile of I had, and even those can usually be recalled with some thought. I wouldn’t think to do that if I hadn’t done some memory training.

I can memorise a phone number, an account number, a reference number - all useful in the shorter term - for minutes if not hours longer. Car number plates, if there’s a need. Those are just fringe benefits that are sometimes useful, and sometimes save you time (just today, I needed a 12-digit reference number for a minute).

So in a sense, one point of practicing mnemonics is to give yourself another set of tools to make your life easier or quicker. I just found uses for it in what I already do.

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It’s an interesting question but I don’t equate things that have no practical use with pointless things. Learning about history, literature etc isn’t necessary** useful** but it isn’t pointless.

I’m currently using mnemonics (inspired by @LynneKelly ) to learn about history by memory palaces including key historic dates/information. Is that useful? No, but it’s interesting to me so not pointless.

That being said, I do use mnemonics in my daily life to remember numbers and snippets of information (usually to save me writing them down), remembering people’s names etc. But that’s just not the main purpose for me.

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I plan to memorize all my Chess openings. Reference to notes is banned during tournament play so mnemonics has high utility for tournament Chess players that don’t have naturally strong conventional Chess memory (like grandmasters do).

Another competitive outlet is quiz game shows or scrabble tournaments (memorize all the 7-8 letter legal words).

The most practical use case for the average person is names and faces.

Subsets of language learning like vocabulary.

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I’ve written this before apart from trivia, reciting the alphabet backwards, ability to memorise numbers and alphanumeric combinations, certain bizarre maths formulas and hundreds of songs and musical scores, people’s names… the only reallly really useful use of memory I couldn’t have done without these techniques that has been INVALUABLE is procedural protocols. Check Lists. For complicated procedures. Ticking all the boxes and not skipping any. EVER.

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A good memory is undoubtably useful, even in the modern world.

Mnemonic techniques can be interesting, regardless of whether they are useful.

Mnemonic techniques can be useful for niche tasks like memorizing playing cards, although that is not helpful in daily life.

Some people who discover the power of memory palaces etc. think for a while that they’ve found the solution to everything related to memory, but I find that there are more important factors: attention, assimilating new knowledge into existing knowledge, understanding the meaning behind data, knowing what’s worth memorizing and what is better to research on demand, flashcard training, … these are often more effective.

I asked a similar question a few months ago—“Have you used Memory Techniques in an Interesting Real-Life Situation?” and got some interesting/surprising responses from people who are experienced in mnemonics (including Anthony Metivier, who teaches mnemonics), that might provide some answers to your question.

So in summary: I’d say mnemonics are useful for competitive events and for some life situations, but for everything.

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I don’t use mnemonics for tricks or competitions. That doesn’t interest me. Okay I memorized PI out to 100 digits to see if I could but if a calculation requires more than 3 decimals I use a calculator.

However, my life has been a process of constant learning. In software the world changes profoundly every decade and each major development comes with a huge charge of libraries and syntax that need fluent mastery. In addition, by nature I am a perpetual student and mnemonics have been invaluable in absorbing the suite of brute facts that one has to have at one’s fingertips to be able to think coherently about a topic.

I am not one to memorize brute, undigested facts. I depend heavily on comprehension and logic to hold a web of related information together. When that fails or doesn’t work reliably enough I call on mnemonics as a support.

If your life doesn’t involve constantly absorbing new information and you are on top of your appointments then perhaps these techniques are not worth the investment they require. It’s very convenient to have your credit card numbers at your fingertips but, IMO, it’s not worth mastering the Major System for that alone.

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Well, I discovered the wonderful world of memory techniques ~2 months ago. I found great use for it in studying coding, to do list(cause I never write things down), remembering phone numbers, historical facts for when I’m debating, etc. I could list 12 other things although that won’t explain why there useful because usefulness is so dependent on what you want. In my life it’s been super helpful, but maybe I haven’t used it as long as others. Though I doubt I’m never not going to use memory palaces there to powerful. As someone mentioned above it’s a tool that’s more helpful. I don’t see it as hammer; I see it as a tool box. Like literally with everything I actually haven’t stopped using techniques since I learned of them.

So a little about myself I’m a person who doesn’t like writing anything down. I can tell you why however it’s irrelevant. Just know I hate the whole process. Anyway I’m working at this transportation company for ~2 weeks now and let me tell you there’s a lot to keep track of. I receive up to 80+ calls a day, license plates, repairs, drivers, meetings, etc. Things you need to remember. Anyway do to let’s say less than ideal personal choices the techniques aren’t mandatory in this environment, but I would’ve been pissed by the sheer amount of things my coworkers and I have to write down. Mnemonics for the win. Now my case might be completely unique to yours there might not be a reason to even use a technique. I don’t understand how because to me it seems endlessly versatile adaptive to whichever situation.

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Going off on a tangent from OP’s point, but I’m curious how you used memory techniques when studying coding.

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Sorry about that. I specifically use memory palace and rhymes for languages. For example, JavaScript I’m using a raid from a game I like. I use the beginning portion for just general commands. I use a later portion of the raid for the “logic”by using rhymes although this I’m not sure how helpful it is, but it’s permanently with me. So, let’s say string a = b string (“use a toenail clipper”); the command for string in my head corresponds with the rhyme I have for the logic I have for strings. String for me reminds me of when my friend was being stupid and he was yelling “bring me green beans.” I can’t tell you for the life of me why that relates so strongly to string but it does. In that correlation though it reminds me of the logic of the command. Basically I’m traveling in the raid for the command, then once I find the command I need I then have a rhyme/event that reminds me of the logic for said command. I hope I explained it well.

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You did explain that well - that makes sense, and I can see how it would work. Thanks for explaining it. And no need to apologise, it’s me going off on the tangent not you :slight_smile:
Cheers

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Mnemonics are great for remembering lists eg. a list of all the Countries in the World. It is up to you to find a list to remember that is in line with your interests. It is really great being able to find a mnemonics that you think up that helps you remember something instantly. It helped me understand more about myself and my mind. If you don’t enjoy it anymore perhaps find something more interesting to do.

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Seems like you’ve focused mainly on Numbers, which is fairly useless(could help memorize statistics).

I believe firmly the best discipline to train is random Words, and I recommend this even for non-competitors.

Essentially, it’s a real simple thing. “What am I trying to learn? How can I make this more memorable?”

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Don
Seriously, you think this ? I believe it’s one of the best discipline to train.

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Absolutely. For memory sports, Numbers is very useful, but for real life you’d be fine with just knowing the major system.

Words is all about creativity.

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That’s more than a little parochial. To you perhaps. Numbers are my main interest in mnemonics. I do a lot of calculation.

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The next part said (could help memorize statistics)

Again, just having a familiarity with major system or if you really want to be solid 00-99 image codes would be enough.

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Numbers is the best mnemonics basic skill for Chess as there are 64 Chess squares to track as a destination.

@Digizard will need to practice numbers basic skills as the attack and defense values of his Pokemon utilize a lot of numbers.

@Herbalist probably would want to focus on random words or even just random universal images within his subset of herb characteristic images

It helps to know your major project ahead of time. If you plan to language learn random words will be much better basic skills practice.

I think random words is the default best basic mnemonics skills exercise if you don’t have a project specific use case in mind.

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@zweb_chess what random words or universal images should i be focused on?

Astringent would be an image of a lady in a corset wraped in saranwrap drinking a thick glass of wine.

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