Coding Density vs. Coding Range

General Memory Chat
1

Coding Density vs. Coding Range
Heyho, I just need a litte bit of help. I am going to start my own PAO-System and did some thought on that. To me: I am very interested in Maths and Neurology.

Here is the Problem I have:
I am trying to figure out the perfect Balance between Coding Density and Coding Range (Dont know if these words exist, they are just clear in my Mind.) I am trying to show you what I mean by these examples:

1. the P or O-System

What I imagine in this System is, that you give every Number 1 Object or 1 Person that you associate it with.

1.1 Coding Range 1-9

You give every number between 1-9 one Object or Person. For example
1 Albert Einstein
2. Hat
…
So, if you want to remember a 120 position Number, you have to use 120 Points of Memory, but you only use 9 Coding Images.

1.2 Coding Range 10-99

Everyone of these Numbers has one Person or Object attached to it. To remember a 120 position Number, you use 60 Points of Memory, but you have to use 89 coding Images.

1.3 Coding Range 100-999

You use 40 Points of Memory, but 899 coding Images.

2. The PA or AO-System

In this system you give every Number a Person/Object and an Action to it. So you have a higher Coding Density.

2.1 Coding Range 1-10

1 Albert Einstein Reads
2. Dexter kills
so, you use 18 Coding Images (2 Codeimages per Number). If I want to remember 12, I have Albert Einstein Kills. If I want 21, I have Dexter reads.
To Remember a 120 position Number, I will use 60 Points of Memory, but only have to remember 18 coding Images.

2.2 Coding Range 10-99

30 Points of Memory, 178 Coding Images

2.3 Coding Range 100-999

20 Points of Memory, 1798 Coding Images.

3. The PAO-System

Every Number has a Person, an Action and a Object attributed to it.

2.1 Coding Range 1-10

  1. Albert Einstein reads a Book
  2. Dexter kills a ball.
    122 would be Albert Einstein kills a ball.
    you have 3 codeimages per Number, so you use 27 Code Images, but you only have to use 40 points of Memory.

2.2 Coding Range 10-99

267 Codeimages, 20 Points of Memory.

2.3 Coding Range 100-999

2697 Coding Images, but only 13 Images.

4. Now here is my Idea. You use some kind of PAOL-System. Every Number gets a Person, Action, Object and Location.

4.1 Coding Range 1-10

  1. Albert Einstein reads a book in the library.
  2. Dexter kills a ball in his home
    36 Coding Images, but only 30 Points of Memory.

4.2 Coding Range 10-99

356 Coding Images, but only 15 Points of Memory

4.3 Coding Range 100-999

3596 Coding Images, but only 10 Points of Memory.
sooo… if we encode 10-99 with 4 Informations with the PAOL-System instead of 100-999 with the PAO-System, you have to use 2 more loci, but you have to use 2697-356=2341 less coding Information.

5. CARDS

In Relation to cards.
PAO-System with cards uses 352=156 Coding Images, and you only have to use 17 loci.
with the PAOL-System you use 452=208 Coding Images, but you use 13 loci.
So, whatcha guys thinking?

2

You lost me after point 1.1 :expressionless:

3

Im sorry, is there anything I can do to clarify? :slight_smile:

4

Hi Arsul,

You are forgetting the zero’s. So:
1.1 instead of 9 images you would need 10.
1.2 you need 100 images.
1.3 you would need 1000 images.
etc.

Apart form that you are right. There have been attempts to add another item to a P, an A and an O.
This will work.

5

Of course you are right, thanks for the Insight. Cant believe I overlooked that.

You said that some tried adding another Info, like in my case the Location… Did it work? You know someone? :slight_smile:

6

Sure. Here is one:

7

Thank you, thats a good example of adding another Information to a Number instead of just PAO. The Problem is, that he still just adds 3 information at one time to a given number, in that case PIE.

Is there a huge Problem with Adding more than 3 information to an object? like PAOL?

8

Some more:

Now let’s address your issue. You said:

This is a subject that is not often addressed on this forum. A lot of people start with mnemonics and immediately want to start out with a third degree PAO (1000 persons, actions and objects) or a third degree Major System (1000 images).
A third degree system needs a lot of attention.

Where do you think the perfect balance lies?

9

Well, if I use the PAO-System with 100-999, then I need

2.3 Coding Range 100-999

2697 Coding Images, but only 13 Palace points.

With the PAOL-System 10-99, i have to use 356 Coding Images, but only 15 Points of Memory.

That means I have to use 2 more points… but I need only 13% as many Coding Images.

Does it make it more efficient in the sense that I have a lower mistake chance, cause I only have 13% as many Pictures I associate with?

Or is 3 Images in one Place the most effective? the PAO-System?

10

Correction. You would need 3000 and 400 coding images.

No, there is no difference in mistake chance. The difference is that in your third level PAO, since you are coding 3 digits per P, A and O, that you code 9 digits in total.
With the second degree PAOL you are coding 8 digits in total, since you code 2 digits per P, A, O and L.

120 divided by 9 gives the 13 points of memory and
120 divided by 8 gives the 15 points of memory.

The difficulty lies in finding 1000 actions. Most people can come up with 1000 persons. It is a lot, but doable.
1000 objects can also be done. 1000 distinctive actions imo is the most difficult.
You would need 1000 verbs and find images of those actions that greatly differ from each other.

Nelson Dellis explains how he moved from a 3-2-2 system of PAO to a 3-2-3.
That means 1000 person, 100 actions and 1000 objects.
Think about it, why would the current reigning USA champion use 100 actions instead of 1000?

You could also create a third level PAOL and code 4 times 3 equals 12 digits. That way you would only need 10 memory points.

In my view, this is a theoretical discussion. Creating lists of 1000 things is one thing, memorizing it is another, but keeping all of them online in your brain, which means speedily retrieving them and coding them, needs serious work.

You are right in your assumption that one needs a balance. For a memory champion, the balance lies somewhere else than for you or for me.

11

Thank you very much for all the Information youve given me :slight_smile:

12

You are right. In my humble opinion, I think we should read and try different systems in order to apply them or variations of them to specific needs. What work for me not necessarily work for others. One think I know. The system should work fast and smooth as it can be. Relaxation is very important to enhance the memory.

13

You missed the news by a couple of hours :wink:

Using locations sounds like a very good idea to me. Not many people have really practiced hard at branches of PAO, but that one is very appealing. Maybe you should give it a shot.

14

Of course it would be hard to imagine 1000 actions, same as it would be hard to imagine 1000 locations that are distinctive from each other.

What could be done is like this:

542593189294958285
542 Einstein
59 Smokes
318 a cigar
92 on Mars

So you would Code 10 Numbers in one Location^^ Would be a 3-2-3-2 Coding.

You would need 1000 Persons and Objects, but only 100 actions and locations.

15

Of course it would be hard to imagine 1000 actions, same as it would be hard to imagine 1000 locations that are distinctive from each other.

What could be done is like this:

542593189294958285
542 Einstein
59 Smokes
318 a cigar
92 on Mars

So you would Code 10 Numbers in one Location^^ Would be a 3-2-3-2 Coding.

You would need 1000 Persons and Objects, but only 100 actions and locations.

But I see the real strength at cards. Where you only have to find 52 of each, cause then maximising coding density would be really strong.

For example a PAOOL System…

you have 5 cards, and it would be

Einstein lights a cigarette with a lighter on Mars.