Just stop yapping and start studying if u actually wanna crack the exam.
If u think MOL is a waste of time u don’t know what u are talking about
2 Likes
You are right. I am studying actually. The post is for people who might struggle on that. I have struggled myself.
1 Like
To study, the memory palace shouldn’t function in isolation, and its effectiveness depends on the data to be memorized. Some data is implicit, while other data requires reasoning because it’s more abstract. For example, stating that Alexander the Great crossed the Hellespont in 334 BC is not the same as explaining the distributive property of real numbers: a(a+c) = ab + ac. Examples with numbers include: 2(7+3) = 2x7 + 2x3 or 5x4 + 5x8 = 5(4+8).
In the second case, reasoning is necessary. You can memorize a formula, but not its derivation process. The previous example is simple, as it only involves identifying properties like the distributive property in arithmetic. Logical memory must be developed in conjunction with creative memory, because you can memorize without truly understanding anything.
Sometimes you understand something, but you can’t remember it. That’s where mnemonics comes in. It makes memorizing something you understand much easier, since you don’t need to memorize everything. Instead, you abstract the concept into an image or a set of elements: an abacus for counting, a hand with missing fingers for subtracting, a family for multiplying (father, mother, and children, or a mother and her child), a decapitated man for dividing, or a magic show where a character is divided. With an image, you organize your thoughts and can discuss different topics, answer questions, perform various exercises with multiple solutions, and explain physics, math, and other concepts creatively. Using creative logic is ideal, along with lots of practice. Of course, mental models help you hack into different approaches; you don’t need too many reviews and you forget less. You can be more creative when understanding a topic, and so on. So, it does help, but it’s not used in isolation.
2 Likes
This is incredible, I’m literally,(LITERALLY), going through the same doubts and questions. Your post helped me work through my questions, I realized I wasn’t alone, thank you so much. Keep up the good work.
1 Like
At this point man I just want to ask you what do you do for a living. Your replies are very unique and creative I love reading your replies or post whenever I see in sub
For now, I’m focused solely on my university studies, and I also study various subjects outside of university. I enjoy philosophy, poetry, history, painting, mathematics, mental math, programming, and more, so I’m quite curious.
I’ve been interested in memory since a young age, always seeking different methods and creative solutions.
I struggle with obsessive-compulsive disorder, which is why I’ve spent years studying memory-related cases.
3 Likes
I am very much delighted to hear that.
1 Like
Hello Strangers,
It has been a while since the last post. I felt I needed to say something that I found which could be useful to everybody. It requires some introspection thus I will start with an example so that it would set you in certain mindset.
Let us take brief look when we were learning to bicycle in childhood. We were taught for sometime but could not ride it independently and after just a while we get used to riding bicycle and than comes the phase where we would go cycling everyday or each moment we get. Why is that? Neuroscientist would say because cycling fires up motor neuron circuit leading to very robust and reliable learning, it is the nature of learning that has led to it. He is right. But behaviourally? Why the frequency?. Answering from our own experience, we see ourselves becoming better rider(growth factor), see ourselves in total control(autonomy) and great deal of suprises(I could not ride with just one hand but now I am doing it, I did not even practice for it).
Musicians, painters, sportspersons are other people who know this phenomenon because they get to experience it often. You take an uncommon polyrhythm 7:4. Practice it a while and it becomes automatic. You start imporvising in it and feel suprised by it. You practice it everytime you get even the slightest time window.
Same sould have happened to Method OF Loci because it is an artful pursuit. Why ours still feel mechanical and Why is it that we have to dedicate a specific time block to practice it? More importantly How to reach that mindset we discussed above?
To answer that I found of why of it is due to lack of sense of growth with technique. It felt effortful to encode 10 items in a journey within 2 minutes. I can do it now in 1 minute but still feels very effortful(intrinsic and extraneous cognitive load has not setteled yet). It lacked element of suprise(deliberate practice of somethig but led to competence in something else)
To answer the how of it I will tell what worked for me. I am highly enthusiast about it even then I suggest you to be sceptic about it, experiment with it and integrate with it only if it works. I had realization that I was more interested about the associated factual knowledge rather than the mnemonic images(or stories) that I created. So at that very moment of retrieval of information my attention splitted( was attentive of images as well as associated factual data). This directly affected procedurization(better procedurization means you find shortcuts, newer insights, speed, ease of execution every time you repeat it). So you have to singularly focus on the story or image you created a few times(initially speaking, it will be automated as you go by). You will have a very close relation to the images and stories you created will come to life(characters develop their own personalities). The suprise factor will be there(you see yourself progressing in unattended nusiance of the technique).
I can directly pinpoint the feeling if you were musician. It is like you practice scales throughout the instrument, ascending and descending. You will feel nothing for sometime but after a while you get better finger dexterity, develop the sense of melody(unintended), start noticing intervals(unintended) and most importantly you cannot outgrow it(seasoned player with experience of over 40 years still do it and find something new). You always have time to practice scales( you enjoy it don’t you). Treat those stories you created as scales. You will figure new things everytime you repeat it and experience exponential growth.
Psychologically, see yourself as a mystic storyteller. Your stories are something you experienced and they reveal the facts(not you trying to reveal it). The story has a purpose to serve you thus you are totally attentive to your stories.
I would highly appriciate if there are any critique. I want to see if I communicated my findings properly.
5 Likes
Hello strangers,
I now want to share another finding as well which I believe will transform the whole MOL to imagined living experience making MOL self renforcing and very enjoyable. I want you to see the logic of it so that you could yourself determine transformative nature of this finding.
Take a scenario where you want to remember “Alaxander The Great was born on 21st July 356 B.C” “Alien” is for Alaxander, Death Note for 21, Julius Ceaser for July, samsung phone for 03, Lucifer for 56 and the location is The sphynx.
So the first story I make is An Alien sitting in head of sphynx writes Julius Ceaser’s name in his death note when he sees Julius Ceaser in the ground with his great army but calls for backup from his samsung phone when he sees Lucifer spanning his wings sitting at the right flank of the army.
This has now put myself in certain state of mind. I unknowing try to hold the story in my head(This alone has heavily restriced me of my creative process). I want to know if the story makes sense, Do I have to learn to make better stories as well?, Does the story follow cause and effect to make it cohrent and more memoriable?, Why do I have to remember this long a*s story which encoded just birth date of Alaxander? and the rumination continues.
But did you realize that any story works fine as long as the images(or your associations) are there. Say that I did not remember the story second time I wanted to retrieve it. Now I make another story. Alien came down to sphynx with Death Note in his hand to hand it to julius ceaser because he requested it. However Julius ceaser is called by Pompei in his samsung phone so he asks Lucifer to get the death note for him.
Now that you have seen it, Did you sense a great relief when you realized you need not remember the story quite literally or follow up on it as often as you think?, Did you also realize that every story you forgot(we generally do not forgot the whole of it) is an opportunity to create newer story and refine your story making ability?, Did you see that the approach would not be monotonus(trying to retrieve same made up story)? but most importantly CAN YOU SEE LETTING YOUR CHARACTERS DO WHATEVER THEY WANT DOES NOT AFFECT ASSOCIATED FACTS?(I am not shouting)
After you realize it, you are in observer state. You just walk your mental journey and notice your characters(or mnemonic images) doing their work and they might do different things everytime you visit them(so is my experience) which suprises or amuse you.
This stage is where the encoded images(cues) along with associated facts(actual data you wanted to memorize) becomes dynamic. The brain begins to make relationship from your mnemonic images about associated facts(factual data) which was totally unsuspecting to you. This is totally same as experential learning(no research, Just my belief).
There is also 2 step process which I have found does the same as above. Stage one is where you encode your mnemonic images in journey and revise it till it becomes robust. At the second stage, you just observe your mnemonic images you put in that journey. The brain naturally detects details of those images, personality of characters and so on transforming what once was mechanical approach to imagined living experience.
I am suspecting this could be the same phenomenon when Lynne Kelly mentions some african confirming his ancestors talking to him but cannot be totally sure. Whateve the case, I want you all to simply experiment with these findings.
3 Likes
Hey Strangers,
Any of you personify locus itself? I am asking because I tried it and it blew me away. I can encode many items(<5) just in single locus with total certanity of recall with just 1 or 2 repeats. The act of locus itself reveals the story.
I came up with this idea due to my frustration with PAO. I realized I could not totally see my characters to make them more useable(if I remember Mike(37) I know mike by tattoo but cannot see his whole persona). I however choose locus which comes completely in my mind without any hassle like a particular chair (I got the idea from Ad-Herennium where writer emphasizes the locus to be conspicious and should come to the mind instantly in totality). That way I can clearly see that locus(object). So I provided certain personality like it is a mean and grumpy chair(I chose body language most because it is inherently easy to decipher and we are hardwired to do so).Some said Alex Mullen uses such technique but have not heard from you all.
So do anyone of you have also stumbled upon this strategy? Help me here.
I would also particularly want to know the opinion of @LynneKelly relating to Aboriginal practice. Do Aboriginals personify the locus itself?
2 Likes
The story method is called floating palace where u don’t memorize any rooms and just link ur images to make a story.Its good for small chunks of data but u will mess up the order of ur images
1 Like
Oh that’s a cool name.Floating palace.I like it.
It sounds exactly the way I use it.The story itself acts like a palace.
I agree with the order probelm.
But guess what? I don’t use it for sequential information at all!!
I actually just need to answer a question based which contains a keyword as a cue, I already encode this cue as an image during study,and then keep jamming things together.
An example.
In which old paleothic site was an ostrich egg found?
The mention of the egg leads me to a big omlet cooked by patel(a man with a cap,a specific kind which is symbolic of Maharashtra).
So I would know that it was Patle, Maharashtra.
I have found this method working incredibly well for me with the added advantage of not creating any memory palaces.
Of courses,there are many advantages to creating them.I just find this working nicely for my use case
1 Like
I think I did not properly communicate what I was asking. I am saying Locus(I choose an object i.e a door, dustbin, a sofa like in roman room system) behaving like a person.
The best example would be you choosing your sofa as a locus but it is a talking(personification )sofa.
1 Like
I haven’t read the whole thread, so apologies for anything that I have missed.
How interesting. I wonder how much personal emotional investment in the story at any location serves to personalise it. I know that the Tlingit (SE Alaska) Elder I work with talks about having an individual attachment to the locations - the same story framework but an individual response.
My Aboriginal co-author on the Songlines books, Margo Neale, talks about the way the performance has the skeleton of the required knowledge but every performer puts their own flesh on the skeleton. I suspect that’s similar.
Interesting to think about.
I’ll read the other responses.
4 Likes
Thank you for responding. Infact, I believe you to have something that might resonate with my findings. Like bestaries, I provided some body language to the loci itself and I choose small and medium sized objects but I realized now that it works for large objects such as stadium staircase as well. The greatest delight I had was when I let the loci interact with mnemonic images like image being apple and locus a door knob, knob just pulls a knife and peels the apple. The knob has body language of mexican gangster and it shows. I also realized that that knob can interact with more than one mnemonic image and would not affect certanity of retireval. I also see myself in an observer state meaning when I mentally walk to that loci than it is like a mini show, the knob does it’s things and I am just watching it’s body language. The required review is also very less and it is quite easy.
I discussed this with a neuroscientist and he suspected it was because I evoked episodic memory system which fires up easily, consolidates easily and has very low rate of retrieval failure because we are hardwired to make sense of life episodes.
I think I read about ancestors in your book where you mentioned a person not doing something because his ancestors told him so. These memories also act similarly after I set up my memory palaces with personification of locus. They become lively so to speak and come to conscious awareness in some situations.
To answer this there is not much effort atleast for me and the whole process is self enforcing. I just try to provide some personality and body language to the loci and it is set.
This finding has become a great breakthrough in a way I see memory palace and their effectiveness. I somewhat feel jealous that I am sharing this gold nugget to people on forum which I believe transform the way people use Method Of Loci but people do not seem to care, haha.
I want your help for confirmity. You have good research under your belt regarding the usages of memory systems across different cultures. I just want to know if any of those cultures treat locus as living entity where locus itself interacts with mnemonic images they put in that locus and by personification I mean the locus doing something, expressing emotions, plotting against something, trying to hide something, reveal something. I do not want to confuse personifying loci as just door opening when you go there for example. It is more like a door refusing to open disgusted by my appearence(it is judging me).If the locus is a car than it is anticipating the road for potholes, sharp turns etc like we do. The stairs which I have chosen as locus just changes shape like a molten plastic just to slide a mnemonic image I create down to first step and is delighted by it.
Do any of memory systems and cultures you researched say something along my lines?
3 Likes
All Indigenous cultures I have worked with see the landscape as a living entity. In particular, Australian cultures us the term Country, capitalised, to refer to the landscape with embodied knowledge. You use the term’ mnemonic images’ which they won’t. You need to see it from their mindset. It also won’t be an individual adding the images to any locus (sacred locations). They will learn the stories as a community, but may have an individual perspective or performance for that knowledge.
If you haven’t done so, then my Indgenous co-author’s (Margo Neale’s) chapters in our book, Songlines would be a good place to start seeing it from an Indigenous perspective.
If you want to get these ideas in a more complex, purely Indigenous expression, then I would suggest [Songspirals] (Allen & Unwin - Australia) by the Gay’wu Group of Women.
It isn’t a direct correlation to what you are asking because there is so much more cultural and community stuff embedded in these knowledge systems.
It has taken me years to get a tentative grasp on this! Have fun learning a different way of thinking.
Lynne
3 Likes
Thank You very much.
This is the single most conformity that I needed. Now I shall continue my MOL practice as usual and see what newer findings tallies with indigenous culture.
The self content I felt by realizing it independently is the best feeling I had so far.
Thank you again.
2 Likes
‘I see this is your top post on your profile, is there any other best post you have made?
Gentlemen,
I am having these unique experiences with Method Of Loci which I wanted to share. I was encoding toad which is PAO for 11 in locus which is an arched top wall with red waxed painting.The character is like ninja turtle just to give you idea. As I was placing that image in locus someone beside me played a song in his cellphone and to my suprise, the toad danced. THE TOAD DANCED man. Now how to even explain that based on research? haha
4 Likes
Gentlemen was replying to me?
I am un familar with certain terms your used in your message ‘PAO’ .
a toad is a frog - right ?
scanned over your message *