The ball, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, puppet, female and male method; systematic 2 digit number method

Sometimes a picture is worth a thousand words, so hopefully the pictures below will be enough to explain the method.

image

All 2 digit numbers ending with 9 (balloon shaped):

Some more examples:



Just in case:

Just in case the logic of 1st digit number 7 being a puppet was not clear:

If you put your hand in a sock (puppet) with your thumb down and fingers horizontal (puppet/animal with mouth open) your hand looks like the number 7.

Also, I can imagine that 2nd digit number 3 being a lion is not obvious for everybody; I kind of see a 3 as a mouth from the side (middle line being a tongue), so I picture a lion with an open mouth. I could have chosen a fork or trident, but an image with multiple of those just doesn’t seem appropriate for this system.

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To me, this just seems so much more complicated/confusing than simply using Major’s (or Dominic’s) single-image associations for each two-digit number. Is there a reason why you’re trying to reinvent the wheel?

Bob

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I have a feeling that perhaps you don’t completely understand the system I proposed (in particular regarding the images I would place in the memory palace, see below in my explanation). However I actually agree that this system is in some way more complicated than for example a Major based 2 digit system.

How complicated is it really?

Let’s look at two examples and compare my new system with a number to letter system I had before (not much different than the Major system).

1st example 73:

In my old number to letter system this would be read as TE (pronounced as tay in English; I’m dutch), which sounds like thee which is the dutch word for tea, so the image is a tea pot,

In my new system 73 reads as puppet (7) lion (3). For this number I thought of Animal from the Muppet Show being scared (eyes wide open) by a lion while drumming. The image I would place in my memory palace is no more complicated than the image I would get from a Major system-ish method.

The images I showed in my original post like:

… are just to show the logic of the system, the actual image that would go in the memory palace would be:

To get back to the comparison of the two number 73 translations: one is a single word connected to a single image and the other is two symbols that are also connected to a single image.

I have already made and simultaniousely memorised (without even making an effort to do that) the whole system:

Unlike the Major system this new system allows for much more integration between different images. For example this part of the spreadsheet …

… shows images that are not random but are part of story that is so easy to remember that without any further training a week from now I would still be able to translate 54 as a sperm whale, because 5 windsurfers sail into the mouth of a sperm whale in the story that also has a helicopter and other sea animals in it.

The key difference between Major(like) systems and my new system is that the latter one does not require imagined or real pronunciation. Even Ben Pridmore said that when he broke the 1 deck of cards world record he still pronounced to some extent the words of his 2 card images. A purely symbolic system has a potential speed advantage. This in my estimation is why Erol has made his Shaper system. His system is less complicated than mine, but takes much longer to make (he spent months according to his own admission on making his system, I only spent 5 hours making and subsequently also learning it).

2nd example 60:

In my old number to letter system this would be read as BO :arrow_right: bow.

In my new system 60 reads as 6 rings. I used to juggle as a hobby (I was never any good), so 6 rings has a very unique meaning, that is very different (in terms of juggling patterns and difficulty) from for example 4 or 5 rings (I have 3 jugglers in my system).

Is there a reason why you’re trying to reinvent the wheel?

I am kind of surprised by your question. Are you aware that many of the high level memory sports competitors (some of whom are active on this forum) have done exactly that; they have made their own systems.

In my case the main reason for creating this system is the speed limitation I face with a system that I can’t use without (imagined) pronunciation. The reading of numbers as ko nu ki fo si (respectively 40 22 41 80 51 in my old number system) gets also really boring very quickly.

I can’t say with any amount of confidence how fast I will be with this new system, but I can say with confidence that I am having fun trying it out.

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I am aware of that. But, unless I overlooked it, you never stated that the point of this system was to increase speed for competition. Unless that’s stated—or a post is tagged that way—I would tend to assume that one is memorizing for either education/academic studies or personal enrichment.

Bob

Obviously, if this system works for you, it works!

I do have a question about this statement regarding your image(s) for “73,” though:

I get the impression that you’re not working in English, so we may not be talking about the same things. But using Major in English, “73” could be a “comma,” a punctuation mark. Your image combines a puppet with the “off-screen” sighting of a lion. To my mind, that means there are two elements—a puppet and a lion—associated with your image rather than one (a comma). And I would say that’s inherently more complicated. (Although I’m guessing that, over time, you’re going to be able to immediately see 73 as Animal and completely skip past the translation of “7+3 = puppet + lion.”) I suspect that if I were trying to follow your system I would just picture a puppet lion, which seems more straightforward to me. But perhaps you have a reason for not doing that…?

But as I said, if it’s producing your desired results, then it’s clearly a good system for you! All the best.

Bob

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That is correct. I wanted my presentation of this system to be as short and clear as possible. Adding my motivation for this system would make the original post so long that perhaps many forum members will not have the patience to read my post at all (I do not blame them in the least for this).

Unless that’s stated—or a post is tagged that way—I would tend to assume that one is memorizing for either education/academic studies or personal enrichment.

I don’t understand your reasoning. I have not made a post about my memorization of any kind, I have made a post about a new number memorization system that I created. It goes without saying that it has possible advantages (why else would I post it?) and that it can be used in memory competitions.

You are assuming a kind of “norm” regarding how to present information about self made memory systems that simply doesn’t exist on this forum. For example both
LociInTheSky and TheHumanTim have made memory systems (innovations) and mostly just communicate what there systems are instead what they are supposed to be used for. The complexity of their systems is on a whole different level than my new system, so just sticking to explaining the system itself leads to a substantial amount of reading material. The people that understand their posts know what the purpose is and the people that don’t understand their posts should perhaps do some basic mnemonic information learning first or try a different hobby like table tennis.

Just to avoid confusion for the sake of other forum members reading this discussion; we are now talking, as it appears, about my previous number to letter system and not my new system (it has only 14 symbols and six numbers and no words). My number system was based on mostly Dutch vowel sounds, however many “words” that that system creates are not Dutch words or do not even sound close to Dutch words so I improvise and use my knowledge of English, German, French and Spanish. For example 13 is pronounced as IM, which I associate with a German toothpaste commercial (in my childhood I used to watch a lot of German television); “Reinigen Sie Ihre Zähne immer mit neu entwickelter Zahnpasta”.

But using Major in English, “73” could be a “comma,” a punctuation mark.

I have never used the Major system; it always appeared to make more sense to me to use what the most intuitive number to letter (or sounds in case of vowels) translations are. For example the word fotocopy would look very much like 80704001 in my estimation (0 being an o as a vowel and a p as consonant).

Your image combines a puppet with the “off-screen” sighting of a lion.

The image doesn’t combine anything, it is simply Animal from the muppets playing drums (that is what he is known for). Translating this image back into muppet + lion (73) is in my opinion in general easier than translating a Major system image back into a word and thus a 2 digit number. First of all there are only 10 possible variations of each single digit number element. He literally is a muppet, so very likely he is associated with a number starting with 7 (7 representing an open mouth of a puppet) and the association I thought of with a lion seems very easy to me. In contrast the Major system and similar systems allows for the creation of images that may be an easy translation of a 2 digit number, but translating the images back into the number (names) is not always as easy. In my old system 50 would be translated as SO, as in “So you think you can dance” TV show and I had Michael Jackson as an image. Very often I would have no clue what the image of Michael was supposed to be translated as. To put in other words: two simple elements out of a collection of ten possible variations (of which some are very obvious like all the muppets start with number 7) are not necessarily more complicated together than a single element out of a possible 100 variations.

To my mind, that means there are two elements—a puppet and a lion—associated with your image rather than one … And I would say that’s inherently more complicated.

As I have explained in the above text, the complexity of the 2 elements from my system is much less than that of the single elements (a single word) of the Major system. The problem of having for example a picture of a dog and (in the beginning of your usage of the system) not knowing if the word was “pet”, “dog” or “hound” or something similar in meaning is not a problem that my system would bring about.

Although I’m guessing that, over time, you’re going to be able to immediately see 73 as Animal and completely skip past the translation of “7+3 = puppet + lion.”)

Now we are getting somewhere. That is indeed the end goal, which admittingly I have not mentioned in my original post for already mentioned reasons. The symbolic reading is so simple in my estimation not despite but because there are two elements instead of one for each 2 digit number and thus only 10 very simple variations of each element.

The system as a whole may be new to some extent, however the idea of for example translating 39 as 3 balloons and thus perhaps as a clown (with 3 balloons) is not. My first peglist (method described in a 50 plus year old book) is based on a number rhyme words system for the first 10 pegs …


… followed by 10 = one ball. 11 = one spear, … , 28 is two bicycles on a trailer and so on. The system is so simple that with little practice, indeed 28 immediately triggers the image of two bicycles on a trailer.

Even after months of using a number to letter system (mostly used at work ro memorize item numbers and locations) I still can’t look at 65 for example and say what the image is unless I translate it as a word. This means for me that I can only translate one 2 digit number at the time. If I now for example look at 71 and 75 I already can see immediately (as it is seems) that it’s Kermit the frog (with a candle) and Cookie Monster (in a wheelchair).

I suspect that if I were trying to follow your system I would just picture a puppet lion, which seems more straightforward to me. But perhaps you have a reason for not doing that…?

Your idea is not bad at all, but there are indeed not just one but two reasons for not doing that. The first reason is that it breaks the logical pattern of the system; like that logic would not work for a puppet + wheelchair or a puppet + ring. The 2nd reason is that the image of Animal playing drums is much better for me than a puppet lion.

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