I was wondering what exactly are the principles behind the Simon System. From my understanding, it’s similar to the Ben System (i.e. 2704 images are required and made up by combinations of two cards at a time). All I’ve read about how it works is this:
Two syllables of the structure consonant-vowel instead of consonant-vowel-consonant.
I can only think of one other plausible way of how this system would work:
Instead of having 16 (First consonant based on suit combination) x 13 (Vowel based on first decimal/face card) x 13 (Second consonant based on second decimal/face card) as with the Ben System, the combination would be 4 (First consonant based on first suit) x 13 (Vowel based on first decimal/face card) x 13 (Consonant based on second decimal/face card) x 4 (Consonant based on second suit)
o Example: Ben System – 8 of Spades + 2 of Spades = “Sign”
o Example: Simon System - 8 of Spades + 2 of Spades = “Sign(s)”
If this is how it works, then you wouldn’t have to get bogged down by the 16 combinations of suits, but rather just use the first suit (S,D,H,C) as the first consonant. Although you have only four main groups of words beginning with the consonants (S,D,H,C), you would have to expand these by a factor of 4 (e.g. Sign(s), Signe(d), Sign (h)older, Sign (c)ompany – just as an example). Plus, this would be much easier to learn than the Ben System. You would only really have to know 676 (4x13x13) images, which would be categorized by four endings (second consonants) beginning with S, D, H, and C.
I remember Simon R. commenting in a post that he is working on a 4 digit system. The principles described above would fit into a 4 digit system very well.
I don’t think that he has ever shared the details (at least in English), but I’d guess that he uses categories. I don’t know how someone could strictly adhere to the phonetics for 10,000 images.
People are different regarding if they share how they do things or not, as they risk the possibility of loosing an advantage. I don’t blame him or anything. Ben doesn’t mind at all sharing his tricks.
I’m just in the process of finding a three digit system for memorizing numbers. I don’t see myself competing or anything, but nevertheless I like keeping my options open for the future (also it takes quite some time learning these systems). As for a 10k system it’s not something I will embark on anytime soon, unless I expect myself being world champion one day.
I may use Google translate and see if I find anything useful.
I got a headache from reading too much mnemonics right now. I’m gonna look into that idea of yours for finding more images.
“NAI-T becomes: [bird] + t = turkey”
Do you recommend doing it consistently for all new images? That example could easily have been translated to “knight”, but if using categories would it be better to then use the turkey image?
If you hypothesize that the brain f.ex. sub-vocalizes NAI and is expecting a bird, but then have to remember that NAI-T didn’t need to be categorized and thus a knight. If you see what I mean.
I didn’t finish filling out my images in that system yet. I think it would be ideal to do it that way from the beginning, or do what Nelson does, which is described here: How to build PAO 3-2-3 system
I think the phonetics are most helpful in the beginning. After a while, the brain knows the numbers instinctively. When I see the number 21, I say “NI” (same sound as “knee”), but the image is a pronghorn antelope. The method that I used to create my 2-digit system wasn’t the best way to do things, but it is an example of how the brain probably won’t confuse NAI-T with a knight after the images become instinctual.
I am writing a blog post about something along those lines and will try to publish it soon. (There are something like 60 blog posts in my drafts at the moment…)
His system seemed interesting. I don’t know the math, but it may not be usable or optimal for card memorization (and binaries)? But for numerical I think it will prove very effective. Some say they remember people and characters better (Ben himself). Also having those actions along will make it easy to create vivid and memorable images. Have you thought about this when creating your images?
If you get a combination of two (or three) inanimate objects, that wouldn’t be really good. You would have to give them human traits (anthropomorphism) etc. in order to memorize them most effectively. And if giving them actions, those actions also have the potential to code information themselves (but 1000 actions would probably not be good, therefore a good compromise in Nelson’s system).
I agree with phonetics being most helpful in the beginning (especially for a 3-digit system). I actually decided on making my two digit system grouped and arbitrary because I believe having people you find memorable is more important.
I have almost completed my two digit system and don’t think I have the motivation for changing it to the 1000 people thing. But I do want a three digit system …
Also, regarding finding images you probably have thought of this: If having a phonetic system I should not need to constrict myself to my main language. I know both my native language and English well. I also know how to pronounce words in two additional languages (you could maybe also just use any language and listen to the pronunciation in a dictionary). So in theory I could just take out any of those dictionaries and find words with the right phonetics if having trouble finding images. There probably is such thing as a phonetic dictionary also.
Wouldn’t I be able to find all my images this way?
It works… I think my images are in seven or eight languages. I just sat at a bookstore with a pile of dictionaries, searching for words based on what I know about the phonetics.
Examples:
“Ei” sound (as in “eight”) is common in Portuguese and Japanese.
“aa” as in "cat’ is found in Latin and English
Spanish, Italian, Japanese, and Portuguese have similar vowels. Portuguese has some different vowels.
Ancient and Modern Greek have different pronunciations – I used the Ancient Greek form of “Minotaur” rather than English, because I needed it to fit a different number. Same with Apollo, which is 975 – “PEL” from aPELLon (Ἀπέλλων).
Some of my images are based on things that are a couple of steps away from the original word. 65 is “ebollizione” which means “boiling” in Italian. So the final image is the stainless steel pot that I use to boil water for tea. But I pronounce it “BAI” due to the weirdness of my 2-digit system when I was remotely contemplating a 10,000 image system.
In a four digit system you would never need to reach 10000 pegs for memorizing two cards with one image. As soon as you reach 5151, you can stop. You don’t even need to memorize any image for any number above 51 in any slice of 100!
10,000 images to remember 2 cards with one image? If I use the Dominic System, all I need is 26 images. Two cards will give me Person + Action, which I place at a location, or on a peg somewhere. Why on earth would anyone want to try to remember 10,000 instead of simply 26?
Obviously, you can use Person + Action + Object for every 3 cards and need only about 17/18 images.
Using one image per two cards requires 2,652 of the images. The 10,000-image systems are for decimal numbers. If you want to compress four digits into one image, you need 10,000 images: 0000 to 9999. You can then store up to 12 digits per locus.
From listening to a few podcasts, and reading the brainboard forum, in translate:
Numbers: Consonant vowel consonant consonant. The four digit can sometimes be ‘derivative’ from the 3 digit system. But he does memorise with the 3 digit only sometimes as well. This is an extension of the logic of the Ben system, and I guess when he started it he just tried to find words as he went rather than learning a full 10,000 list.
Cards: 2 card system as Consonant vowel consonant vowel. Value of the card a consonant, suit of the card a vowel. These are the general principles, I assume that some exceptions / flexibility exists when reading some pairs.
Locations: 1 image per location in Cards and Numbers.
he talked about this a bit (as you may guess) in this podcast episode, highly recommend, the whole episode is great. IIRC he makes some really good points about typical memory advice (you can just remember things that make sense, and you can make them make sense. you don’t have to do the “make it big/gross/sexy/whatever” every image) (he says it all much better) and I really enjoyed it: Memory Sports and the Rise of the 4-Digit System w/ Simon Reinhard (Spotify)
As did I, I listened to the parts I was interested in a few times, to let it sink in. The card system was not in this episode, but briefly mentioned in another, and on the German brain board forum.
And you would know from doing mem league - what sticks and does not is a bit mysterious. Sometimes you can remember things even though you think you will prob forget!
He used to be a lawyer. Can you imagine negotiating against him? He would be v persuasive!
All the podcasts and eps with the long time MAs are great, as they have obviously loved doing mem sports and give a lot of insights. I like when they give N&F tips and they say I dont really have a system, I just think about the name and I connect it to the face LOL
