Should I abandon my Mem System?

General Memory Chat
1

Hello All,

I’ve been working on my own PAO variation for about a month now, and it’s become a real slog. I don’t interact much with the Mem community, but on some random podcast I overheard mention of PAO and the Ben System. I was familiar with both of these, but I thought I’d jog my memory on how Ben works. Turns out a hell of a lot better.

Sorry if this post is a bit lengthy. I’ll try to keep it concise, but I value the advice you can give me.

First thing’s first: the why.
I’m a teacher’s aide at an engineering high school. I help students with learning disabilities, but also tutor and run other extracurricular programs. My background is in liberal arts, meaning I can’t choose whether I love poetry, painting and music more than math and science (I really do love them all with equal passion). Using a simple Major System and a memory palace, I was able to learn 120 digits of Pi in about an hour without much practice. Don’t laugh. Baby stuff, I know. I thought using a PAO would triple that easily. I’m trying to create a system I can teach to my students, but I want it to be the best and most efficient. I hope to use it at first to learn as many digits of Pi as possible, but also memorize the place order of every digit. So if someone asks, “What are the the 25th and 103rd numbers on the list?” I’d know the answer.

My system is PAOP, essentially just adding a fourth mem for “place” which is kind of like a backdrop. Think of the backgrounds in the old Streetfighter II video game. They could be triggered by any old object like a castle or a jukebox or a hanging disco ball, whatever. This allows me to create 8 digit scenarios at each loci. But it requires 4 images. Example: “Bruce Lee-licking-gnome-air force base” The air force base is simply a jet-fighter on a field or something. So now, I’ve quadrupled that original two digit Major System.

But now after all this hard work, I come to realize that the Ben System gets 9 digits with only three images (and I know now I could always add a fourth or even fifth, sixth - if the numbers can be clustered into groups of three, why not the images themselves?) The key is replacing the Major System with Ben Pridmore’s consonant-vowel-consonant, still in part based on Major. So my efforts are hobbled right at the molecular level (3 vs 2 digits per image).

I’m wondering whether I should scrap my work and start over with a new image system. The reason I say it’s a lot of work is because I’ve charted and documented my entire process. I once had a very fine instructional course on Memrise which was very popular but was taken down for infringing on trademarks and copyrights (no joke!). It consisted of Youtube videos and Slideshare presentations. So I know what it’s like to lose a lot of valuable work.

In this instance, I’ve photographed every loci in my memory palace and paired the images on Quizlet with those of numerical images, then learned them by heart so that I know exactly which is the 15th loci (that trash can) and the 57th (the entrance to my local library). Then I went and created my personal PAOP system, again using Quizlet, and scouring the internet for appropriate images to include. Then I translated pi into its 8 digit scenarios. Then I went and broke down the quickest way to round and divide into a semi-octal system with remainders, so that if I were asked, “What’s the 307th digit in the sequence?” I’d know to round up to 312 and subtract 7 to give me the third digit* (or first digit of my third, or “Object,” image) in my 312th loci. I didn’t bother to learn all the multiples of 8 to a thousand or anything like that. In fact, I’m not even really dividing into 307. I just kind of stared at the multiples until the pattern emerged and I could easily identify what the nearest (top and bottom) multiples would be (I’ll spare you) the details.

I’m still in the process of memorizing my scenarios, which I’m glad of, because I think it might be a good time to scrap them and start with Ben. I’m really conflicted. Ben might be easier to learn/teach, and I dividing into 9’s is even easier. Especially since I’ve already created the Quizlets for the Memory Palace and Pi sans imagery. What should I do? Would it be easier to teach Ben as opposed to my PAOP?

*12-7=5; 8-5=3

2

There was a lot of information here. I have heard of people doing your system of using a location as another addition but it just turns into an other object for the most part like how you said that the air base is a jet.

At the end of the day, it doesn’t matter what system you use. All that matters if you are comfortable with it and you practice a lot. Those two things determine if you are going to be effective with your system or not.

I wouldn’t really teach anyone either system because there is no point. Students don’t need a more completed 2 digit system. A basic 2 digit system will do fine. Also, they probably wouldn’t put in the time to make a ben or your system. Most people don’t see the use or want to practice enough to get efficient with the system.

3

If I were teaching people I would use a plain 2-digit Major System (or the 2-digit system I use). Enthusiastic students could expand that to a 3-digit Major System or Ben System.

PAO requires three times as many images than a simple 2-digit Major System, and it might not provide that many advantages – see the death of PAO for a discussion about it. (It doesn’t mean that PAO is dead – just that it is less-represented at the very highest level of competition as it used to be.)

4

I agree with the fact that learning a simple 2-digits system should be the way to go. If the student is into it, then the teacher might tell him about PAO, or other systems.
But while it’s not represented at a high level of competition, I think that PAO has many advantages. Not for competition, but for long term memory, where repetitions could be a hassle.
Maybe an alternative could be to have multiple items for each 2 digits (for at least 3 objects I have 2 options, whichever comes into mind first, or is more suitable for the action).

5

Thank you all for your advice. I think it would have been easier to expand my palace in the first place. I ended it at 60. I think the appeal to me of using a system other than 2-digit is that loci numbers and memorized numbers would not overlap image-wise.

True, I could always add a loci image at intervals and count my way up or down to arrive at the desired number. I think I’m going to consider replacing PAO, as I dont plan to use it in the long term, and memorizing digits isn’t exactly what I’m after. And, yes, I will teach a simple 2-digit system to my kids and point the way to better systems for those who want to try something more complicated.

Thank you! Despite being so many test tubes, I don’t consider it wasted time. I learned a lot through this partial failure. Upward and onward!