PAO System Questions (0-99)

Iamjyul1 · October 4, 2024, 7:53pm

The parts i’m currently confused on are how to really put the pao list together in and of itself. My pao list can have a person action object but how can i use that person action and object in memorizing a deck of cards? I have a list for numbers 0-99 and for each i have a person place and thing but should i convert that numbered list into my deck of cards and go from there? If so how do people go about doing this? My current list doesn’t follow the major system exactly since the actions and objects do not have to do with the major system would that be fine later on or make it more troublesome for me if my goal is to memorize a random deck of cards in under 20 seconds? My two objectives right now are

Continue to study every day using word generators and random anki lists then converting it into numbers using the major system to get even more proficient all while correcting and identifying my own mistakes.
Convert and correct my current list so that the actions and objects follow the major system as well.

Here’s my 0-99 list as well Pao List - Google Sheets

TheHumanTim · October 4, 2024, 11:47pm

There’s nothing wrong with this approach!

The one point to consider is that by linking the action and object directly to the PERSON instead of directly to the NUMBER, you add in an extra “conversion step” to your mental process of encoding and decoding. (And an extra one on top of that if your person is based on Initials rather than a single word name.)

So if you need 31’s object, you currently need to first read 31 as MT, then convert that to Mike Tyson, then convert him to his object… “Ear.” This is 2 “extra conversions” compared to say a fully Major based PAO list.

If I have MaTT, MaTe, and MeaT as 31’s Person, Action, and Object respectively, then I can learn to directly associate reading 31 as those three things independently right from the start.

This can be a little bit tricky at first, but think about an english word with a triple PAO homophone like Male / Mail / Mail. You know by the context of the sentence which form of that word sound is correct. “I am a Male.” “I mailed a letter.” “I received some important mail.” If you speak those sentences out loud, the word sounds the same in each sentence, but you know via context if it’s referring to the Person, Action, or Object.

Similarly, if you see 31 in context of it being the first two digits of a 6 digit sequence, you can read it as it’s “person” form. If it sits at the third and fourth digits, its read as its Action form. If it comes last in the sequence, read it as its Object form.

Know that with enough practice, your “extra conversions” will eventually automate and become instantaneous, but you might consider trying the direct approach and see if it clicks for you.

There’s nothing wrong with trying both. Your brain is incredibly adaptable, so don’t worry about “learning the wrong way.” You can always change words and overwrite associations later on. (I’ve done this 3 times now with a 2-card, 1352 / 2704 image system. And am working on my 4th rewrite as we speak!) Figure out what clicks for you and see how far it takes you. Don’t be in a rush, but also don’t try to get everything perfect before you start trying to use it!

That is definitely a great way to go. Then you can maintain a single set of images that work for both cards and numbers rather than trying to hold onto multiple translation systems and double the amount of images.

In terms of translating Major System numbers to cards, there are many ways to do it. I’ve used a few different mappings and the main tricky part is figuring out what to do with the picture cards. Ace through 10 naturally map up with 0-9 (Ace = 1, 10 = 0.) With only 4 suits, those can map to whichever 4 numbers you want. So for the non-picture cards you get a very easy and natural way to read them as numbers and their major word equivilents. Read the value as the “tens digit” and the suit as the “ones digit.”

Examples (take as 1, as 2, as 3, and as 4.)

Ace = 11 (TeD / TooTing / ToaD)
3 = 31 (MaTT / MaTing / MeaT)
10 = 01 (SiD / SiTTing / SeaT)
5 = 52 (LioN / LeaNing / LiNe)
3 = 83 (MiMe / MaiMing / MuMu)
7 74 (KeRRy / CaRRying / CoRe)

So then for the picture cards, one good way I’ve found is to just read the picture cards in reverse. Read the suit as the “tens place” and the value as the “ones place.”

You’ll need to determine which numbers to use to represent Jack, Queen, and King. Those numbers can’t be the same as the numbers that represent the suits, because this will cause repeats and you won’t be able to tell them apart. For this example lets use 6 for Jack (the J sound fits the Jack), lets use 7 for King (7 can be the K sound like King), and lets use 8 for Queen (8 looks like a cliche’d “hourglass female figure” so may be easy to associate with the Queens…)

So some examples for reading picture cards:
Jack is actually read as Jack = 36 (MaGe / MaSHing / MaTCH)
King = 27 (NiCK / kNoCKing / NuKe)
Queen = 48 (RuFio / RouGHing / RooF)
King = 17 (TuCK / TaKing / TaCK)

Then you make 3 card PAO scenes just like with numbers:

[5 ][7 ][K ] = LioN CaRRying a NuKe.

Some things to think about! However you choose to go, remember the specifics of the system are generally less important than the effort you put in to learning and practicing with it!

Iamjyul1 · October 5, 2024, 5:20pm

Thank you so much you’ve helped me a lot!! I have two things to ask and that’s if you have a list with a fully major based PAO list that i could try to use to see if it works better for me since it’s less randomized i might be able to recall it easier. If not don’t worry about it i’m sure i could figure out something you’ve helped me a ton regardless and i’m grateful for that.

My second question is on my current practice methods i’ve put together in docs i was wondering if you think it’s a good approach to get directly into it because i feel like i’m doing too much thinking when i could just do it so i decided to just start with this.

-------- Below is from my notes in docs-------

The 0-99 list should be congruent to the major system (for you) since it’ll be easier to digest I’d think. Ask Tim if he has a list that you can use for reference and change it if you see something you’d remember easier. Either that or just remember the association and stick with your current list. Personally, i think that will be harder since it’s so randomized you might get something confused unless there’s some type of order there. Direct associations might seem better now, but try both to see what works best for you.

Either way you should get two mini notebooks from the dollar store and write your numbered list (0-99) on the front pages and then its PAO system on the back. Same goes for the second one write down draw or glue a card on the front of the page and then on the back the # and it’s associated pao. Either have someone else test you or flip to random pages and test yourself it doesn’t matter.

PAO Numbers Mini Notebook

Example:

11 (Front)

TeD / TooTing / ToaD (Back)

—--------- and then one for the deck of cards direct practice

Deck of Cards Mini Notebook

Example:

5 (Front)
(52) LioN / LeaNing / LiNe (Back)

Example 2: (Face Cards)

King (Front)

27 NiCK / kNoCKing / NuKe (Back)

—

Current major system conversion practice

AI Generate 100 random words.
Either in docs or on a piece of paper write the number that word would be.
Give your brain time to reset and check it later or have someone check it for you if someone will at that time.

(Check it yourself if you have multiple hundred word lists so you don’t give anyone homework they didn’t ask for lol. Don’t use AI because it’s not always accurate and can lead to your practice being flawed.)

After two weeks of training only this then move onto memorizing actual decks of cards and work on creating a method that works for you so you don’t have to create a new memory palace with 17 loci each time. During these two weeks or however long you think is necessary dwell on the following questions. “What methods can I use to put pressure on myself so I’m constantly progressing such as timers exc…? Would it be better to use the number and work on mastery of the major pao list while putting only the numbers in each individual loci or would it be better to only visualize it each individual time? Either one you choose consider whether using other mnemonics such as the journey or chain method will help you with organizing it and reducing your times. Apply this principle to each of your memory palaces for other topics as well, how can using the story or chain method help keep you more organized with them to help with recall?

Thank you!!!

TheHumanTim · October 5, 2024, 6:16pm

Here you go! (It also has location and adjective words, ignore those for now and just check out the People Actions and Objects. Card maps are also in this grid.)

You’re taking a very analog approach with the notebooks, which is cool, but be aware there are many free flashcard apps that can make things a lot easier to set up and review quickly from your phone or computer. Also if you decide to change any of the words (which you almost certainly will) its alot easier to edit than having to rewrite or replace physical cards. But if you like the tangible feel, by all means do what works for you!

One thing to think about, when you make your flashcards is that you’ll want to practice recognition by “reading” one type of association at a time. So you’ll see a number or a card on the front, but try to JUST think of the Person OR the Action OR the Object. Try not to visualize the [ King] as “Nick knocking on a nuke” as a complete scene. Try to see it as each of its independent elements on their own. The [ K] is “NiCK” when you are reviewing cards to learn the people. The [ King] is “kNoCKing” when you are learning actions. The [ King] is a “NuKe” when you’re learning the objects. This way you build that skill of being able to read the card directly as each of the elements.

In terms of pushing yourself faster, go for incremental improvements. Figure out your baseline “seconds per card” to memorize a full deck with 100% accuracy. (This will probably be pretty slow at first, thats ok!) Push yourself like 5% faster via a metronome app. Your accuracy will probably drop a good amount at first, but keep at that pace and you’ll see it improve. Once you can hit around 90% accuracy at the new speed, set it another 5% faster. Before long, you’ll be pretty far along. Keep in mind that the faster you go, the harder it is to shave time off your personal bests. This is normal. Plateaus are also normal where you don’t see any progress for days or weeks sometimes. But keep at it. Fast times depend on how quickly you can recognize the cards and visualize the imagery, how quickly you can put a scene together and relate it to the location in your palace, and how quickly you can navigate your loci. Practice each of those things to improve your total time.

Lastly, don’t neglect memory palace building. Try to create four really solid 17 loci journeys at first and learn them till you have em down cold. Then each week or so try to make another. Trust me on this. The more palaces you have that you are comfortable with, the more you can freely practice cards and numbers and the faster you’ll get.

Iamjyul1 · October 5, 2024, 7:06pm

Thank you!! You’re right i think it’s an analog approach as well but since it’s just a simple pao list and not the shadow system or anything more complicated i was figuring if i write it down I’ll be more likely to retain it. More than likely I’ll end up doing both so I can access it at anytime without looking in the notebook. It might make me think twice about changing it as well so I’m not as wishy washy and changing words on a whim at first.

Also, I didn’t even think about having to separate the tests I’d give myself into individual persons, actions and objects that’s a great idea I probably would of had to think of that or suffered down the line. All in all thanks for reviewing my practice method and giving me the green light now i can get started immediately without any doubts and create those 17 loci palaces in the meantime.