Memorising cards for Bridge PAO

Hi,

I’ve just learnt the PAO system for remembering cards.

The only trouble is when it comes to playing bridge I need to remember 4 cards at a time.

POA only takes care of 3. Maybe I just need to practice more but I wondered if anyone else has come up against this problem?

Thanks,

Edward

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Hi @Edward1 :grin:
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What are those four cards?

Thanks.

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they could be any 4 cards. There is only 1 deck used at a time. You can’t see 25 cards after the opponents have played the first card. 4 players - each has 13 cards. 4 cards are played one after the other. Whoever wins that makes a trick. The cards are then placed face down. So you need to remember what cards have been played. PAO covers 3 cards at a time. So I was thinking it might be better to have a PAOO (person, action, object object) system instead. Maybe someone else has had a similar problem.

Have a look at - bridge club live - to play a game or youtube some bridge play videos - it will make it clearer.

Hope that helps to understand?

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OK. Got it. Thanks.

So, after the first trick, you can remember the cards in sequence. (And presumably, the other 3 players could do the same - if they wanted to.)

After the second trick has been played, you can now remember all eight cards played. And so on, until all 52 cards have been played.

Let’s say, during the ninth trick, you wanted to know what card a specific player played to the fourth trick. How would you do that?

Thanks.

I’ve never played Bridge before, I would like to try it.
I would suggest you stick with PA rather than pao. This way you can store 4 cards at a time.

You can memorise your own hand if each is dealt 13 cards. You may want to use a separate palace for your cards only. For the rest of the 39 cards you will need 9 locis.
9 Locis gives you 36. You can then make a quick mental note of the last 3 cards if necessary.

I recall a method where you’d also imagine you are burning the cards you’d just memorised, so the ones that are not burned would be in the hands of the other players. And this would increase the probability of knowing and guessing what the next cards might be with each 4 cards played and left to be played.

With more practice you’ll have an unfair advantage. Well it would still be fair because you are still using your memory as well the other players will be doing, except you have a trained memory that gives you the advantage.

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Yes that is helpful. I found that playing bridge is very helpful for memory, but no harm in making it even better with these tools. There are many different bidding systems, but precision is the one used by tournament and international players and provides the highest degree of accuracy. The burning idea is a good one thank you.

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Well, the proof of the pudding is in the eating. I’ll ask the same question as I asked @Edward1:
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Thanks.

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Let’s say we use a Memory Palace with 13 rooms, and in each room we place 4 cards using PA +PA.

So how I would do it is to go to the 4th room in my palace because it would be stored in that room, and see what is happening there to find the card. I am guessing there would be thinking time during the game and that thinking time would give you the chance to visit any room.
I think this would work. But I maybe wrong as I have never ever played Bridge before.

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:laughing: Erol is right, it’s never a easy task to deal with PAO. Unless, u r ready in PA. Personally, I use PAOX I got confused by my content sometimes.
Beware, It’s not a big deal despite mixing the position of P and A. What u need to do is practice regularly with corrections. Then, the problem can be solved.

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I don’t want to encourage anti-social behaviour, but I can safely say that you don’t need to worry too much about time.

At club level, you can assume that a “board” of 4 hands is played in about 8 minutes. ~2 minutes per hand. ~2-3 seconds per card.

Occasionally one player “goes into a huddle” for about a minute. But if he does that too often, he gets a warning from the director.

IMO, relative to World Championship mnemonics, 2 seconds probably seems like 10 minutes.
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OK. You’ve found the four cards of the fourth trick. How do you know which player played which card?

BTW1: IMHO, that’s the “crunch” question. I search frequently for “+bridge mnemonics OR memory major OR dominic OR PA OR PAO”. So far, I’ve found nothing. There must be a reason.

BTW2: Please note that my questions are just “devil’s advocating” :grin:

These tiny “agile” Q/As are based on the modern “agile” approach to project management. Everything is tiny increments. So you reduce the opportunities for wasting time by going too far down the wrong path before someone notices. Also, the questioner gives no hints to the questionee. So the questionee must either “put up or shut up” :grin:

It’s similar to courts in both the UK and US where the barrister is not allowed to “lead” her own witness.

Thanks.

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This thread mentions “PAOX”. It’s post #12

Thanks.

It is an extension of PAO, just adding a column of X which is same as other columns.
I didn’t come up with the name of the column so I called X means extra.

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Yes that’s a good point. You do start to remember things anyway when you play a lot. And working out who played what is difficult. You would need to Attach a compass point perhaps N,E, S or W to the start of the PAOX sequence, then burn them!

At the moment I just think back to what was played when I think back to the 4th trick when at the 9th. It would be better to have a system because on occasion it’s easy to forget that a small card is a winner.

You do a shape and point count after the ops have played their first card. In NT contracts you count your winners and work out how many extra tricks you need to make. In trump contracts you count your winners outside of trumps and work out how many extra you can make from trumps and then anything extra. Not always true, but that’s what you’re using most of the time. You also look at the patterns and decide if you are going to 1)play trumps 2) ruff 3) cross ruff 4) set up a long suit. There are more patterns but those are the basic ones. NT is more about setting things up by losing tricks / timing first.

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So let me get this right.
When a card is put down on table, does this mean the next player could be any player?
So is it not played by each player clockwise?

If each card is played clockwise by the next player in order, then the loci method would give you the card and the person who played that card.

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Each player plays clockwise, in turn.

Whoever wins the trick is the first person to play to the NEXT trick.
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Can you explain that please. That’s where I’m stuck.

Maybe you could demonstrate with a sequence of, say, 3 tricks in succession.

Absolutely the easiest sequence to visualize is the case where the person who plays first to the first trick (“the opener”) is the person who wins all the tricks. (Quite possible. but rare.)

Then the opener’s card would be in the first position for trick #1, for trick #2, and so on.

My difficulty is trying to understand a mechanism for different players winning tricks, and therefore different players playing first to the next trick. So each player’s card could be in a different position trick-by-trick in each locus.

Also, as @Edward1 said:

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That’s the most frustrating thing that can happen to an average player. Guaranteed divorce. Maybe that’s OK.

Thanks.

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I see. So it’s a random player who wins the hand and starts as the first on the next hand.

Then what I would do is to split each Room into 4 sections. But only use 2 sections for 4 cards using PA.

These sections would be in the clockwise order of;
Left-Wall, Window-Wall, Right-Wall, Middle of the room.

Each wall-section can store 2 cards, so we’d need 2 wall-sections for 4 cards.

We’d just need to place the first winner’s PA to the corresponding wall, and then add the next PA to the next wall-section.

I’ll give it a try to explain how I would do this myself;

First hand

  • Let us say that I was on the table playing the game, and let’s say it is me who is dealing the cards, so the cards are dealt from my left going clockwise;

  • Because the first card is dealt to the person on my left, then this is where I’d place my first PA in the room. This would be the Left-Wall area in that particular room.

  • So the Left-Wall would be used for the first 2 cards.

  • Now still in the same room, and because we go clockwise, the next 2 cards are going to be placed at the Window-Wall area. So you’ll do another PA and place that there.

  • That’s the first hand out the way, we memorised the first 4 cards.

Memorising the winners. "Compass"

  • Now, the next loci is the second room, again with 4 sections.

  • Let’s say that the person opposite me is the winner of the first hand.
    His/Her position would be the North on the Compass. This would translate to Window-Wall in the room. So this then gives me the starting locus in Room two for the next hand and for the next set of 4 cards.

  • And the steps to be repeated for the next set of 4 cards and so on.
    I would probably also use a Number Shapes attachment to each winner, or use them in a practical way somehow.

Not being a Bridge player, I have not tried or practiced the methods I’ve explained here. But If I understand the basics correctly, this is probably what I would do and practice to see how it helps.

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Many of the high end backgammon players seem to play Bridge and Poker. One for love and the other for money. Kit Woolsey comes to mind. Not exactly sure what you will find down that path. But they are a bunch of mathematicians and cutthroat pirates so if there is a way of using mnemonics to get an edge you can be sure that they have gone down that path. Could be wrong but you may want to google it a bit.

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This looks promising, so I need some time to study your method.

But in the meantime, the remainder of this post describes a physical fact that might help the mnemonist to locate previously played cards.

In the type of bridge that I play, the four cards for each trick are not played in the centre of the table.

Instead, each player plays her card near the edge of the table, in front of herself. So the four cards of one trick are at the four edges of the table, in front of each player.

Bridge is a partnership game: two players sitting opposite each other called North and South (N-S) against E-W.

If a trick is won by the N-S pair (for example), N places her card upside-down, slightly to her right, pointing in the N-S direction, because it’s an N-S trick. Therefore the first card of all four players is pointing N-S.

Assume that the second trick is won by E-W. Each card is placed on top of the first card, but slightly to the right again, and pointing E-W.

So, each player can see at a glance who won the first, second, third trick - up to the thirteenth trick.

The mnemonist can make use of that knowledge. There’s no need to work through the loci to determine which side won the fourth trick. If it’s pointing N-S, then it must have been won by EITHER N or S. Of course, that leaves the problem of which player played which card - which is one of the purposes of this thread.

Thanks.

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I apologise if I missed something, but why would you need to remember all four cards? When I play, I naturally remember what I have and the dummies hand is on the table long enough for everyone to see, so its only useful for me to remember what the other two have played.

But perhaps you cant remember what you yourself and the dummy have ? If so, I would go with one card per location since I have the time and can even use the players themselves as P.

But In my experience playing bridge, I really just need to remember 26 cards, Im good enough to remember mine and dummies. Two different palaces one for each player one card per location. 11 locations per palace (no need for the last ones the 12th hand giving you the last) and voila!

But trial and error will give you the right way for you of course!

Fun game!!!

All good comments. Thanks.
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Can you explain how that would work please.
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That’s the kind of gold nuggets that I’ve been panning for. I was thinking of a single palace, so I was trying to figure out how different players would fit into one palace.
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Good thinking :grin:

Thanks.

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