Hi, sorry if things like this have been posted before (I’m new here), but I’m curious as to what you think of the link system. I learned it from Harry Lorayne’s book “The Memory Book,” where he mentions its advantages over traditional loci in that it doesn’t require new rooms since objects are associated to each other.
The wiki page says that linking is the same as the story method, but Lorayne’s system is not really a story. For example, if you have the objects airplane, tree, envelope:
To link Airplane to Tree, maybe I would picture a million trees with wings and jet engines. Then link tree to envelope. Perhaps I picture myself opening an envelope and out pops a huge tree. And so on…
To recall, it’s not really a story; rather, if I start with Airplane, the image I have reminds me of Tree; once I am reminded of Tree, my image reminds me of envelope, etc. Does this make sense?
I used this system together with the card words presented in “The Memory Book” to memorize a deck of cards for the first time last week. It seems that the method of loci is more common though. I emailed Harry Lorayne, and he said he has never and would never use loci. According to him, his link method is much better than loci. What are your thoughts on this? If you use the link method, do you use it for all memory challenges or just a few?
Thanks!
Story doesn’t describe it very well, you are correct.
It’s best used combined with the method of loci. You can store things much easier and for longer periods of time, and with easier review in loci.
Most people use both, there’s no real competition links vs loci.
Links are good for flashcard type information, two pieces of information connected to one another. But it’s also good to store those links in a memory palace to review them whenever you want to, not just when you have your notes.
Hi,
I think it is a question of how you define ‘linking’ - you could say that creating a complex image of PAO is, in effect ‘linking’ so Bateman is correct in saying everyone uses it to some degree, it is just a matter of semantics.
I would call the technique you described as ‘chaining’ in that there is no palace/journey spatial navigation going on in the memorisation.
In memory competitions you will be hard pressed to find anyone that uses the ‘chaining’ method as it is too slow to be useful. Maybe this is why Harry Lorayne has never been seen in any memory competitions?
The major problem with a linking system is that if you forget a link the entire structure can be lost. I might pick it up again at some further link point but I won’t know how much I’ve missed.
With the method of loci / memory palace / journey method, if I forget the P.A.O (or one of them) at a single point I can still progress onwards from the next locus.
Liam identified the problem. You lose one link, you’re done. Of course, you could link every 3rd or 5rd link to a solid place like a locus, and then you would have that many more places to recall the links.
Jimbo is right as well. ‘Chaining’ would be a long chain of links.
Interesting point. I tried cards again last night with linking, and when I struggled to remember the next image I just thought of an image that I hadn’t come across yet, then I worked backwards. Not very efficient, but it worked. I just don’t know how well I could come up with enough locations. Maybe I’ll try loci some time though. But wouldn’t you encounter the same problem if you forget an item? Because if you forget you can’t really go on with memo. And isn’t the whole point of making ridiculous associations so you don’t forget?
After I exchanged a few emails with Harry Lorayne, he seems quite against loci. He says he either uses the Peg System when he wants to remember cards in and out of order and will use the Link system otherwise. Regarding the method of loci, he says it is “nowhere, nowhere near as good as [his] link method” and that he “never has and never would use it.” His not using loci doesn’t seem to hinder his memory training in any way. What do you all think of this? I suppose people can be just as successful with Linking, but some loci fans may disagree. I might try loci sometime to see which system suits me best.
I personally don’t think one is better than the other.
One or the other can be the better choice in a certain situation though.
I do think the method of loci should not be used in all situations. I have talked about this in the past. For example, I do not use it in language learning.
Try all methods and see which ones are best in what situations.
Thanks for the reply.
I have “The Memory Book”; it is great and very thorough. And I ordered “Super Memory, Super Student” and “Memory Math.” Any other books by him or others you recommend?
Using loci on a distinctive journey gives you additional pathways to the core memory. You’re not just remembering, say, Telly Savalas whipping an elephant, you’re remembering that at a specific location. When you revisit the palace, you see the images for what you want to remember. I find both support one another. Think of it simply as additional scaffolding.
By placing the images in a specific palace I can revise easily. If I was just thinking of Mr. Savalas, whipping an elephant I have to keep making sure that I am connecting things properly. I really think I could slip up and skip over to something else I want to remember that had the same person / action / object (or whatever). Having the image at a specific location keeps everything clearer for me.
As I’ve said before, and will doubtless say again, not all minds are the same. Just experiment and do what works for you.
Try a ten spot room like above, have it something real that you know well. See if it works better for you or not. Be interested to hear how you do.
If you own the memory book, you have pretty much covered all of what Harry has to offer.
Other memory books by him contain more or less the same info.
I think the memory book was the first of his books I read and is a great read.
The ‘conversations’ with Jerry Lucas are fun to read. Sometimes they are a bit contrived, but fun anyway.
Specifically relating to the Link method, it disappoints me that Harry Lorayne is extremely closed-minded to any other methods or other memory experts with different ideas coming into the memory “market.”
Like what’s his deal with loci? “the loci system - 3000 years old, and nowhere near - repeat - NOWHERE NEAR as good as the methods I’ve taught for over six decades. Makes little sense today.” (from the link above). What makes little sense to me is his criticizing other’s systems that have been successful.
I even emailed Harry about using Loci for cards – the only things he seems to mention are the age of the system (which shouldn’t really matter) and that his Linking method is so much better (usually with all caps thrown in).
Thoughts on this? Personally I have dabbled into Loci for a few purposes and find it quite good – I’ll probably use it for cards once I learn a good PAO system.
I personally almost always use loci along with links, because as Liam said, it adds another pathway to the memory. I completely disagree that pure linking is better than using loci. If Lorayne thinks his linking system is so good, why aren’t all the top mental athletes using it, but rather they’re using loci? But his arrogance is understandable; of course he wouldn’t admit that someone else’s system is better than his… As for the Method of Loci being “outdated” because it was used 3000 years ago, that’s completely ridiculous. All this being said, you should try it both ways and see which one you prefer.
All of these techniques work. It doesn’t have to be one or the other. They are good for different things. The linking technique works well even without locations.
It takes time to create locations. On the other hand, I don’t think that one could compete at competition level without the method of loci.
I’ve tried links for years on and off and generally drop it because of dropped links. Frustrating. If you make really good sticky imagery really fast then links of course could work and it would maybe have less friction/extra effort. I actually think that Loci is probably better for beginners (and I count myself a beginner, all over again) because of the redundancy and safety. If I was teaching memory (which maybe I should start with my kids) I think I’d start with loci. If the imagery sticks well (and they are all artistic souls; I’ll bet the imagery will work for them really well) then MAYBE we’ll move on to links. This board is full of people who’ve gotten past the initial phase or else people for whom this was a natural fit; consider that there are lots of others out there who need a path with lots of easy wins.
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