As a entertainer I’ve had to commit to memory loads of scripts verbatim. Although tedious and time consuming, I have notice that my ability to learn material this was has improved over the years. I know this is counter to some research claims. But talking to RSC actors I know in Stratford they report the same.
I recently had a go at rote learning a deck of cards with I managed in approximately 90 minutes.
Admittedly I picture vividly the cards in my mind as I say them out loud and learn 5 at a time. Only moving on to the next batch of 5 when first batch is fixed in my mind.
Which begs the question does just vividly picturing information without distorting it in any wacky way whilst rote learning it, improve the remembering of it?
Certainly rote method of learning, I feel can be a useful fall back if approached in the write way. I know with me that over the years relying on rote learning I need less repetition.
This is being explained in the book “Memory Culture” & “Memory, How to Develop, Train and Use it” by William Walker Atkinson. He states that by memorizing scripts, texts by rote learning, you will train your recollection power without the use of "artificial methods’ like he calls the mnemo-techniques.
I’m on my current experimental verbatim memorization challenge to memorize a long text, using only the rote-learning method… and it’s getting easier from week to week to store & recall information that way.
Would you say that your ability to recall information improved in general?
Its difficult to know if it has or its simply the knowledge that I can learn materiel by rote, in other words my confidence in learning that way has improved. It also could be the way I approach it.
When I rote learn scripts I use sing-song approach, that how I did the cards, I sang Ace of spades, 8 of Clubs, 3 of hearts, Queen of diamonds and the 8 or diamonds. A standard actors ploy, establish a rhythm, play the part out in your mine by imagining your saying the lines. In case of the cards picturing the cards in my mind as I sang each batch of 5.
I was once told that by a fellow magician, will once exercise becomes habit and I think that’s the strength of rote it develops habits. I meet a actor who was able to recall verbatim the"Scottish play" backwards. But then hes been playing various role in it for the last 20 years.
Rote learning is not a quick method but still useful Tool if approached in the right way in my opinion.
I don’t know if you can say it’s overlooked as a memory aid; it seems to be the default method in most schools and other places. I think mnemonic methods are the heavy minority.
I too find it effective to, not necessarily sing, but to use strong voice infliction when speaking out aloud. Then I find it helpful to visualize the position of the individual text parts on the page…
IMHO, rote is less effective and more boring than mnemonic and visualization techniques. I believe rote is overemphasized in the educational establishment. as a result, students do not realize their potential. there are some modest advantages to rote, but the trade off is heavily in favor of mnemos, again, IMHO.
According to SuperMemo’s “twenty rules”, text such as poetry should be split into pairs of lines. The first line is typed on the front of a flash card, and the second line is typed on the back.
That second line then becomes the front of a different flash card, with the third line being on the back, and so on. So there are as many flash cards as there are pairs of lines, minus 1 (10 lines give 9 cards).
I would imagine that stuff such as scripts could be split into pairs of sentences. Maybe a long sentence could be split into two or more subparts.
The advantage of software such as SuperMemo is that the program “learns” which lines are causing you difficulty (different people might have difficulty with different lines). So you avoid wasting time on lines that are easy for you personally.
If the script is in a text document, such as Word, it’s easy to copy and paste into software such as the free Anki (SuperMemo itself is horribly buggy, but most of the other software writers seem to refer to the classic SuperMemo rules).
Peeta Raven refers to reciting “Htebcam” backwards. That would be easy with software such as Anki, because you simply ask for the cards to be reversed.
It not about which is better, rather it more about rote being a useful fall back method. Mnemonic tend be mental tactics for specific areas of learning. Rote although slow and tedious is more universal and useful when you get caught in a situation that you don’t have a superior Mnemonic tactic to fallback on.
I believe it can be strengthen in other words with practice less repetition are need to embed information. I’m going to experiment 3 times a week I’m going to put aside half-hour to find out
how many cards I can rote learn in that period. Then after 3 months will see if I can remember more than when I started.
there is material which is more difficult to conform to mnemonics, and rote is therefore the only real solution. that being said, my quest is to find ways to convert such material into mnemonics. my pet example is organic chemistry. it is the undoing of many students who would otherwise attain their goals of higher education.
I wonder how much different a script is to learn when compared to other forms of information which don’t have a story line already built in?
A lot of mnemonic method involves creating the vivid images and stories. That is already done to a certain extent for a script. I would find rote learning the 242 countries of the world in population order, or 408 birds of our state in taxonomic order - two of my memory experiments - very boring, if not impossible, to do as a rote learning exercise.
I would also wonder about the permanence. I always have my set of locations to remind me. I have a very poor natural memory, and even messed up my only two lines in the only play I have appeared in. So that may also be a factor.
It depends on the script, Shakespeare plays are the ones most actor dread learning if you have a major part in one. Although you not consider a actor if you haven’t done one of the bards plays. There certainly a plot a story, but when you have to remember stuff like,
"Full fathom five thy father lies, of his bones are coral made. Those are pearls that were his eyes. Nothing of him that doth fade, but doth suffer a sea-change into something rich and strange."
- The Tempest
Verbatim it not a easy task. Just finished reading about about the Victorian psychologist William James, who conduct experiments to disprove the ancient believe that like a muscle, memory can be strengthened by exercise. Which he disproved using rote learning, Although I don’t know how valid his research is as far as I gathered he only experiment on himself and several others.
But with that said, if you approach rote learning in certain way you need less repetitions for the information to become etched in your brain.
I quickly learn the importance of things like spaced repetition and the sing-song approach. I have five strategies that I approach rote learning with that seems to make it easier. Therefore making it a valuable tool when you go nothing else to fall back on.
Very interesting response. Of course, the word-for-word makes it much harder. I hadn’t thought about that. And then Shakespeare as well. I see your point!
I am not sure what William James meant by strengthening the muscle, but showing that the ancient memory can’t be improved by learning exercise would have required using the methods they used, which were not rote learning. I am not sure what he meant by ‘ancient’ because the Greeks and Romans documented how much memory training improved retention. My research shows that the same methods were used by non-literate cultures long before the classical times.
In Australia, we have a 40,000 year continuous (not unchanging) oral tradition with our Aboriginal hunter-gatherer cultures. Recent research has shown retention of accurate details of flooding after the ice age and such things - accurate records of landscape changes over thousands of years. Pretty amazing - and all done by the memory experts within the tribes. My research is on the actual mechanisms they used.
But all that research says that it is not word-for-word learning, but concepts held in stories with landscape locations and hand held memory aids. I can’t see how those methods would help with word-for-word Shakespeare.
I agree that rote learning has an important role in word-for-word learning.
I would be most grateful if you could provide me with the information listed below.
4 January:
Although tedious and time consuming, I have notice that my ability to learn material this was has improved over the years. I know this is counter to some research claims.
Could you please provide a couple of links to these research claims.
…learn 5 at a time. Only moving on to the next batch of 5 when first batch is fixed in my mind.
Just for my understanding, can you confirm that you don’t return to the first batch of 5 cards until you have completed all the batches?
11 January:
…the Victorian psychologist William James, who conduct experiments to disprove the ancient believe that like a muscle, memory can be strengthened by exercise. Which he disproved using rote learning
Could you please provide the link that specifically says “memory cannot be strengthened by exercise”.
You can’t post links to book, but I suspect if you use that newfangled google internet thingy ans type in William James American psychologist memory your get results.
Basically he was saying that the analogy that the memory was like a muscle and could be strengthening through training was floored. When you train your your muscles like the biceps say with bicep curls and in the process strengthen them you can apply the strength to other areas of your life. But that’s a floored concept when applied to memory as strengthening it in one area does no mean that it can be applied to other areas of your life, like opening a jam jar. Example someone skilled at chess with a good memory for chess moves and positions such as the ability to remember games from memory, does not mean they can apply that to say remembering a deck of cards.
I understand his work as you can only apply a strategy to memory no strengthening it. Like a computer with a fixed ram and hard drive, instead of upgrading them you can get around the limitations with software like compressing data, using some of the hard drive as makeshift ram, swap files and so on. The same with the human memory you don’t upgrade it with exercise you get around it limitations with mental strategy.
I could be wrong with my interpretation but it makes sense,