I am after ruslans, pmemory and i need something much faster

General Memory Chat
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Hello. i am lame in mnemonics and memory techniques. only one i did so far is ruslan pmemory, from pmemory.com, version 1.0 which is available on the ‘legal’ net, or as you wish you can say that pmemory is just translation of Kozarenko books:

http://is.gd/FyvwCo and Техника запоминания иностранных слов - Google Search

(russian language).

So, what would you recommend me to learn now ?
Pmemory is great - i can learn practically anything, but it takes time. there are so called cicero images, you are selecting for example room from your house, and zoom to select smaller objects, there is also techinques which allows you to differentate smaller objects, as containers on larger objects…

but this all is slow. i need something which allow me to create instant database of hundreds, for example 500 cicero images in few minutes…

(question - this cicero are LOCI ? ) ?

what can i learn now ?

thanks.

Isn't this really time consuming, or am I really missing something?
PAO to Ben system
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This post did not make a lot of sense to me. Maybe someone who understands russian might be more helpful.

What you want to do is probably either a) impossible or b) will take years of training.

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hello. what is without sense ? sorry for my english.
in short - i did pmemory course, but in this course creating images, cicero, is slow.
i want to create database of thousands of images, and fast.

which course can you recommend for that ?

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I’m familiar with pmemory - the course that teaches basic mnemonic technique for hundreds of dollars. If my understanding is correct, Cicero images are images, like a lamp, that you zoom in on and hang images from certain features of the lamp. Say, a crab at the base, a leaf on the stalk, and a coat hanger from the lamp-shade. Here the lamp would be the cicero image, and the crab, leaf, and coat hanger are images which remind you of the information you need to remember?

I’m very sceptical of the pmemory course, and from what I’ve learned now, and from what I remember when I looked back at it ages ago, it teaches you things in a round-about way to make it seem more difficult, thus more rewarding when you get it, and makes it seem worth the extortionate price it makes you pay for what you could have learned from a £5 book.

@Geoff, if my understanding is correct - pmemory teaches that you can use cicero images exactly like loci, except fitting hundreds of images into a small space. The way pmemory teaches it, I could have all images that represent the periodic table to me to fit on my desk.

Now, back to you zonbat. I can’t really answer your request because, like Geoff said, it’s impossible and I believe you’ve been fed a bit of misinformation. Us here at mnemotechnics mostly use the Cicero method, but we call it the “Method of loci” or the “journey method”. What we’d do is use journeys we’re familiar with to memorise information, and it’s on a far more macroscopic level than what’s taught in pmemory. So instead of my lamp being able to hold 5 images by itself, what I’d do is make my bed hold 1 or 2 images, then my TV hold 1 or 2 images, then my desk hold 1 or 2 images, then the door as I leave has 1 or 2 images - distinct areas that I know well and can easily differentiate between. There’s no ‘easy’ way to collect loci. You just have to be able to walk through scenes in your mind’s eye. Loci can be created from real places, or fictitious places that are in movies, video games, or TV shows, and as long as you know that place well enough for it to be detailed enough to be used, and you can walk through it in your mind’s eye. You’re good to go.

So there’s no way to add hundreds of ‘cicero images’ in a few minutes. I’m sorry to say.

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Thanks… yes you are right, in pmem you have 5 to 7 images parts on one suppoert image…

so which way is better - loci - with 2 images on one support or 5 on one ?

i did not compare this 2 methods… but for loci you need more support images, so isnt it harder ?

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Hi Zonbat,

Take a look at this:
http://www.usamemorychampionship.com/records

If this are the USA records, that means that there are not many people who can do what you want to do. Also these are trained people, who train a lot.
Put it another way, what you want, I want too. And if you know how to do this, I would like to know the method.

Pmemory seems to be a way of making things that are easy very difficult. This means IMHO that you need to retrain yourself in order to teach you that these things can be done a lot more easily.
That is the reason btw that nobody on this site uses that system.

If you want this, start with the major system. Start with a list of 100 images (search this site for inspiration). When you are proficient with this, you can decide to move to 1000 or even 10,000 images:

Now if you do this you can store 10,000 pieces of information in your mind. You can even put more than one into one spot, so the possibilities are endless.

Still, filling a 10,000 images list cannot be done in minutes.

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Hey there, I just want to quickly say that the method of loci doesn’t necessarily state you have 2 images in each. That’s just what I do, sometimes when I can make the images interact. It’s a personal choice. :stuck_out_tongue:
I think how many images a locus can handle depends on the locus, for something pretty monotonous like a TV, or bed, or desk, I’d say 2-3 images is the max of what you can easily keep track of on it. But for an extremely detailed locus that has lots of unique characteristics, you could attach a good few images onto it. Like the 5 you say pmemory teaches you.
It’s something you have to experiment with, and see how well it works for yourself!

Kinma’s reply is good. But I’d say before diving into the systems, you do some research into them first. This site’s wiki is very good for that, if you have any questions about it. Just come back and ask them in this thread!

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(I posted the following comment elsewhere on this site, but it’s obvious that it’s relevant here, too. Please keep in mind that 10,000 pieces of information DO NOT require 10,000 images.)

Why on earth would ANYONE want to memorize 10,000 images for 10,000 numbers? I’ve seen this desire before and could never understand it. It seems to me that one of the main purposes of mnemonics is to REDUCE the information, to make it more efficient, to compress it all into as little space as possible. For ANY number with 5 digits (10,000 to 99, 999) I would have to use only 3 images (4 at the most if I modify it slightly), using a method I made up for myself plus a peg number for the last 2 digits. Think of that. 3 or 4 images vs. 10,000!

If I use the Dominic system, I’d use only 3 images for 99,999 = 99 is one image, the second 99 creates the second image, the last digit makes the third image.

Is there anyone who really thinks that memorizing (and first coming up with!) 10,000 images is faster, more efficient than a system that requires only 3 or 4 images?

Don’t get me wrong. I think that whatever works is good. If you’ve got 10,000 images for 10,000 numbers and can accurately recall a certain number, then there’s no problem. (I go for accuracy, not speed, since my goal isn’t competition.) But spending all that time dealing with 10,000 images seems to go against the very essence of what memory systems are all about, what they were created for.

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I can think of a couple of reasons. One is the speed numbers event of memory championships.
In this event there are 20 numbers in a row on a page. Using a second degree system one needs to remember 10 images to memorize a full row.
Using a fourth degree system however one needs to remember only 5 images.
This will give one a speed advantage. Easy.

Using the Dominic system for remembering 99 images like you mention is a second degree system.
If you were to do the speed number event you would need 10 images for memorizing a row where users with a 4th degree system need only 5.

Yes, that person would be me.
Once a person has the 10,000 images memorized he would be faster AND more efficient than you who have only 100 person using the Diminic system.

That is a matter of opinion. If you read my post you know that I only use a second degree system.
I will admit that learning 10,000 images is a lot of work. Too much for my taste, but then again I do not compete.

My point is that I think it is a bit presumptuous to assume a 10,000 system is not useful.
Most memorizers start with a 10 pieces peg list, then quickly move on to a 100 pieces system.
Most people stop there. That however does not imply that even bigger system are not useful. It just depends on what you want to use it for.

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Excellent post Kinma.
(I’d +1 you but the button seems to not be working.)