How to differentiate between single & double digit numbers (e.g. 1 vs 01)?!

General Memory Chat
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Just setting up a PAO type system atm.

Getting confused with how to remember digits in strings of 6 that are then broken into pairs as generally suggested, e.g.

23-56-77 // 67-75-44 // etc

Most people suggest this system online inc. some memory champs. But then how do you guys not get confused between 0-9 single digits and 00-09 double digits?!

If in my spreadsheet I have 01 as Stevie Wonder… what if one day I remember a string/sequence that is odd or ends in a random single digit? (Or could be that I have to chunk things differently for different purposes e.g. 3-digit strings or whatever).

Do you have a different character/person? Or action? Or maybe tweak the character or action slightly to suggest the ‘0’ has been removed (or added)? Different colours in the mix or extra objects maybe?

Thanks!

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The simple answer is to first devise you PAO cast of characters 00 - 99. Thereafter devise a simple list of single digit characters for 0 - 9. To clarify using Dominic encoding system:

00 = OO = Ozzie Osborne
01 = OA = Oswald Avery
02 = OB = Otto Bismark
03 = OC = Oliver Cromwell
04 = OD = Officer Dibble
05 = OE = Old Etonian
06 = OS = Oliver Stone
07 = OG = Organ Grinder
08 = OH = Oliver Hardy
09 = ON = Olivia Newton-John

Single digits 0 - 9:

0 = O = Olaf (From Frozen / Frozen II)
1 = A = Aladdin
2 = B = Batman
3 = C = Cinderella
4 = D = Dino (From the Flintstones)
5 = E = Elmo (Muppets)
6 = S = Superman
7 = G = Goofy
8 = H = Hulk
9 = N = Nemo (Finding Nemo)

If your number is a 5 digit one, eg. 08031 break it up as follows: 08-03-1

Person (08) - Action of Person (03) - Object of Person (1)

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That’s perfect, thanks.

So basically I need to create an extra 10 characters plus/including actions and objects. A new set basically; rather than trying to modify the current 00-09 set. Then use the new set in the same way i.e. PAO in the same sequence.

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Definitely. Echoing what @fred2 said. Two different lists. One with all 2-digit numbers (00 through 99) and the other with all 1-digit numbers (0-9). No repeated elements. Build the single digit list following the same rules/system that you apply to the double digit list, then there will be seamless integration. (Some day if you get ambitious and attempt a 3-digit system, if you can use the same rules for image construction across all three lists, you’ll have a really super-powerful tool at your disposal!)

When memorizing 01234, it would be split like 01-23-4. Person 01, Action 23 (both from the 2-digit list) and Object 4 (from the single digit list.)

For a 3-digit number like 678, split it like 67-8 and just use Person 67 and Action 8. You can drop the object and just visualize the action being performed on/with the loci where you store the scene.

If you have a single digit list, you COULD break 678 into 6-7-8 and use a full PAO scene with those numbers, but my rule of thumb is to always default to the largest compression ratio encoding you have and only drop to a weaker compression if there’s a remainder at the end. (I have a 3-digit list, so 678 would simply be a single image “Chekov” from Star Trek.) Less elements to visualize and recall, less effort for your brain.

If you have an even number string that isn’t a multiple of 6 digits, you’ll have to truncate the last scene… So 01234567 (8-digits) would break into 01-23-45 as your first scene. Then 67 as your second. In this case you could treat 67 as 6-7 and do a Person/Action combo from your single digit list, or just take person 67 and make them interact with the loci in whatever way you want. (You could even freestyle a single scene by making it into PAOP… Person"A" does Action to the Object that’s being held by Person"B".)

There’s tons of ways to slice it, but having a full additional independent 1-digit system is the way to go, and with only 30 associations to build, should be very quick to learn.

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A very thorough answer full of many ‘golden nuggets’. I notice from your example given: 678 that your PAO for your (000 - 999) is based on Major System “CHeKoV” = #678. Interested to know what your accompanying “Action” and “Object” is for “CHeKoV”. I assume your PAO - (000 - 999) would only have 100 Actions though, so in terms of your ‘compression argument’, you would be able to encode 8 digit numbers at each loci? Person (XXX)/ Action (XX) / Object (XXX). Are your Actions independent of using the Major Coding system as 3 digit standalones or have you borrowed the Actions from your (PAO 00 - 99 System) which I am familiar with: TeDDy - ToTTin’ - ToaD? I would imagine you don’t have 1000 Actions? Also the Objects for your PAO (000 - 999) are they Major Coded or merely naturally associated objects linked to each of your 1000 persons (000 - 999)?

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just don’t have odd sequences… easily done by prepending a 0…

 12345
012345

…problem solved.

So that would be…

 08031
008031

Person (00) - Action of Person (80) - Object of Person (31)

Because people who go to competitions memorize a couple of hundred digits in 5 minutes. So, either you’ll have the next 6 digits or you won’t… you don’t go digit by digit. At competitions that use paper format, the length of the lines is standard 40 or 30 digits (i.e., even) depending on whether it’s decimal or binary… so the “issue” you describe never really comes up for them.

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At the moment, my 3-digit is just a single image per number, it’s not in PAO format. All images are either People or Objects, with about an even split. This is due to the Shadow System build structure. Shadow calls for one image per card pair, with 992 of the images being a direct translation of their 3-digit counterparts. So in learning Shadow, I’m simultaneously learning a foundation for the 3-digit system. My ultimate goal is to have both People and Objects for all 3-digit numbers so that a PAO can be structured as you thought, XXX-XX-XXX. I can sort of accomplish this now, but instead of a strict PAO structure, it’s Subject"A"(xxx) - Action(xx) - Subject"B"(xxx). I don’t plan on going for 1000 actions. (Since I really want to stick to my major system phonetics for all elements, I don’t think its viable to try to fit 1000 actions into that structure.)

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Do you have a good method for recalling which sequences have the added those zeros and which don’t? Thinking if you have a situation where there are various length individual sequences to remember and you have a sequence like 048279 and then later on there is 26749, if you add the zero to the second sequence to give yourself a clean 6-digits, how would you differentiate which set of your remembered imagery of 04-82-79 or 02-67-49 needs to have the zero dropped during recall?

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Well, when do leading zeros actually have a value? If you’re memorizing “numbers” then you won’t have leading zeros.

Financial statement information… 0321, 00321, 000321 is all just 321 dollars/euros whatnot. Credit card numbers don’t start with zero. Same with IP addresses; if your router is 192.168.10.1 then you remember 192.168.010.001

The only time that a leading zero might be of significance is maybe a combination lock, but then the number of digits is given, so you’d know if you have a leading zero or not. Your example assumes both, variable length and that a leading zero would be significant… is that really the case for numbers?

Might be better able to answer that if you have a concrete example where dropping leading zeros becomes significant and a 072 is different from a 72. Maybe there is a domain specific case that I’m not considering.

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There aren’t a ton, but if you asked me how many digits are on a driver’s licence number, bank account, or maybe something like my company’s personnel identifier numbers, I don’t think I could tell you. They’re probably a standard length, but I don’t interact with them regularly so I haven’t needed to learn and retain that all bank accounts are say 12 digits long, or all drivers licences are 9 (hypothetically.) Those are sequences that could have leading zeroes where the standard sequence length might not be common knowledge. Passwords / Pin Numbers can be autogenerated “randomly” with variable lengths and leading zeros as possibilities.

I agree it’s probably not incredibly common, but in those situations, I’m thinking that the simplest way to memorize it would be just to start dividing into 2-digit chunks and if there’s a single remainder digit at the end, just use a 1-digit element. 1234567 either splits to 12-34-56-7 (4 elements) or 01-23-45-67 (also 4 elements) so either way you go, you still have to encode 4 elements…

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I use a 2-digit shaper system (00-99). It was trivial for me to add 10 more images for 0-9. So having 110 images available I can work with all the numbers I’ve run across so far.

Personally, I don’t have any interest in competing with more of a focus on daily use - so I’m currently working on consistency over raw speed. So, I use my system to remember things like phone numbers, account balances, street addresses, etc.

Yes, I could start a phone number with a leading, non-existing 0, but by having single digits available in my toolbox I don’t have to think about it.

So far, I haven’t decided if it’s better to always lead with a single digit, always end with a single, or change based on circumstance.

As an example, a lot of the nearby county roads in the 500 range. 501, 502, 503… etc

While I can see the advantage of always starting with a single 5, in this case it got boring/repetitive to always have the same image - and a couple of times it confused me because there was always a unicycle starting the image sequence (unicycle = 5).

I switched up the images, sometimes they begin with a unicycle and are followed by a 2-digit image then other times I start with a 2-digit image and end with a single-digit. So far it’s been circumstantial - depending on which image comes to mind first, or interacts best with the beginning of the road (where I stash the images.)

So, I think it depends on your use case. If you’re only memorizing items that are a known, fixed length, you can add a 0 in the front of the number and know to dis-regard it.

If you’re memorizing numbers of unknown lengths and don’t want to remember to dis-regard a leading 0 - invest the time to create the extra images for single digits.