How to become as good as Ramon Campayo?

[SupaTurk]

I have an idea of how Ramon Campayo can look numbers and memorize them so quick. He has at least one letter for each number, and as he sees a number his brain converts the numbers into letters, and then he transform the letters in a phrase, right? Is that a PAO or phonetic system?
Now I do not understand how he can gave at 10 words at once for one second and memorize them all. I guess it requires a strong photographic memory. I also do not understand how he can learn German in 1 hour 30 minutes of memorize more than 22.000 words in 72 hours. So my question is, how he does that and how to be able to make impressive feats of memory like him?

[SupaTurk]

@user_7e

German in 1 hour and 30 minutes and 22k words in 72 hours are very contradictory things.

Here it appears he memorized about 22k words in 72 Hours.
https://www.ramoncampayo.com/1.html

[Parkouristx]

At the end of the day, it comes to practice! There is always a chance that he has some natural ability and some things come easier. I have competed with some competitors that can see color for words and they do extremely well in the words event.

There is something I find fishy and that is no one can learn a language in 1 hour and 30 minutes. I have been learning English for 26 years (my whole life!) and I don’t even know the language 100% haha You can never master or fully learn a language just like how you can never master a dance or martial arts. You just keep getting better and always learn more. You know what I mean?

[SupaTurk]

@user_7e

He uses a mental video a speed reading technique, he encodes chunks of around 4-6 words into a mental video within 0.5 seconds (and so for 2 chunks in 1 second). It’s a result of practice.

This still does not explain how he can picture ten words. I cannot do it. How can I be able to do so? What do you mean by mental video? Do you mean he makes a mental spatial peg and peg all the words, being represented by images, in that same peg?

@user_7e

Regarding how he uses the major system differently, for him it is an association stock. If he has a difficult to memorize word, he can turn it into numbers for which he has major system images so he can recall the words and then just needs to switch some vowels to recall the original word. For the 22k words he essentially just uses the standard visual encoding and associating.

Could you please give me an example of it?

@user_7e

Using a wiki example :

I think pronunciation sucks. I never focused on it, even in Chinese. Even because pronunciation can change according location. For me that is just a matter of knowing phonemes and getting familiar with them, and not trying to be fancy with them, I mean, for example: My father is conspicuous in relation to pronounce. He was used to say “Buddy” for “Body”, and “Heed” for “Head” and “Red”, sometimes, but I wouldn’t commit those errors if I would speak English; that’s because I don’t try to be fancy with pronounce and neither I am concerned with it.

@user_7e

mental images particularly in the form of videos

What do you mean by that? Do you mean animated pictures?

@user_7e

he uses a technique he calls supermemory which are logical but false associations.

I started doing it ereyesterday to memorize Japanese characters. I actually did some days ago with some languages but not categorically.

@Parkouristx

There is something I find fishy and that is no one can learn a language in 1 hour and 30 minutes. I have been learning English for 26 years (my whole life!) and I don’t even know the language 100% haha You can never master or fully learn a language just like how you can never master a dance or martial arts. You just keep getting better and always learn more. You know what I mean?

The more you master a language, the more specific will be the new words you will have to learn in case you have to do so. For example: Generally the most 1000 spoken words of a language composes more than 80% of the vocabulary its native speakers speak in a daily basis, then the measure that number increases, the percentage increase less and less, like for example: 1500 = 90% of the vocabulary. 2000=93.75%; 3000=95%; 5000=96; 10000=98%. 20000=99%; 30000=99.20%; 40000: 99.40%; 90000= 99:90%; 120000= 99.95%. I am actually good at English but I miss grammar, thanks to my trauma of having to study it at school.

[SupaTurk]

@user_7e

What if you had learned every single piece of grammar and every single word, would it not be somewhat acceptable given you can speak the language that you have achieved complete mastery in the moment? Perhaps a few days later you would need to keep up with new words, but it’s achievable.

I do not understand your question.

@user_7e

For the 22k words, he simply visualizes the word in the earlier mental video form, but he tries to associate them with each other.

That sounds cool, but how could it be feasible to be done? Would it be necessary a fixed memory palace or you could just invent a big improvised story in your mind?

@user_7e

Another image for 91 is Bat so you can now visualize a bat to represent bad and remember to switch the ‘t’ for a ‘d’, instead of representing bad.

Hmm so that is the point of making images for 5 thousand numbers. What is the name of that thing PAO system? Major system? Now let me ask another question: Why memorizers here beyond of only making images associated with numbers, they also set a default action for those images?

@user_7e

Since I have practiced this I can confirm that this does indeed work. You can start off with two simple words and try picturing them at a time. Then try increasing this gradually, if you start off slowly and then do it quickly you will quickly be able to do this (You should start off slowly so that you do not just quickly switch). The larger difficulties are in chaining quickly, the actual representation becomes simple once you have practiced a bit.

For a record this is easiest to do with images but you can also do it with writing with both hands, locations, visualized language and even spoken language. Thinking in this way is significantly more difficult to do but also feasible. I have recently managed to keep 3 dialogues in my head at a time but it is extremely difficult to have precise direction with this. It’s much easier to do the reading in this form.

Thanks…

[SupaTurk]

@user_7e

PAO has default actions for images, the idea is that you gain a wider digit grasping ability with PAO. Take for example you have Person : Kaguya , Action : sitting while keeping an elbow locked against the palm Object: telephone in hand.

Translation if Kaguya is #64 , action sitting like this is 81 and telephone is 31 then you have
648131 with essentially one image.
Since this is separate to the major system it’s easy to see yourself combining the two. Perhaps instead of 31 the telephone is the major system equivalent : 1582
64811582 in more or less one object held by a person.

Learning 10000 image systems are time consuming but with PAO you may be able to avoid learning for example more than 300 images to maintain a 1000000 system.

I think most of the reasons you particularly see the systems applied to ‘digits’ or ‘cards’ is simply because these competitions particularly exist for them and if people do not participate in them, they might understand mnemonics more after making such an existing system.
In the end you can make such a system to play shogi or chess or for another purpose of your choice rather than using it for any particulars.

So with PAO system you can resume many items in only one like:
1- Cigar
2- Cap
3- Glasses
4- Earrings
5- Black boots
6- Pistols
7- Jacket
8 - Pants
9 - Arnold Schwarzenegger

123456789= Arnold Schwarzenegger with a cigar, a cap, glasses, earrings, black boots, pistols, jacket, and pants?

@user_7e

PAO has default actions for images, the idea is that you gain a wider digit grasping ability with PAO. Take for example you have Person : Kaguya , Action : sitting while keeping an elbow locked against the palm Object: telephone in hand.

So the purpose of that system is to have an object, one person, and one action for each number in order for you to use them when convenient, like you can combine a lot of objects to one person, or making a mental image of any of the three things (object, action, and person) with whatever number of a strong you want?
Isn’t that method a superior one?
How about adding a forth element to the PAO system: Phonemes, so that way you can combine any phoneme you want to make words?
Another question: Once I had an idea like that: Let’s pick the word “Curto”, that means “Short”, in Portuguese. Let’s suppose I want to transform it into “Curdo” (“Kurd” in Portuguese), because I want to make the mental image of a Kurdish person. The only different is the “T”. The letter D is 10 letters ahead of T in the alphabet, so what would be the most proper way of converting T in D? If I know the technique to make that transformation in a logical way, I could do that technique with virtually anything. Like for example, I could transform the word “Logical” in “Inspect”.

[SupaTurk]

@user_7e

This is possible, the only downside to adding more is that you will spend longer learning it, but the benefits do outweigh this.

Just a matter of making a mathematical formula. Organize the like A to Z, then AA to AZ, then BA to BZ and so on and so forth, and then to calculate the position of the phoneme with a mathematical algorithm to find it.

@user_7e

If you mean during recall to ensure you do know that you converted T to D, in most cases you actually still remember this. You can alternatively in your visualization also associate the instance of T (short kurd), to make it more memorable.

How you exactly do it is up to you, it’s possible to just have the major list and then convert ‘a,i,u,e,o,h,y,w’
19 = t[o]p
t[a]p[e]
t[a]p
t[i]p
d[ee]p
t[a]b
…
etc
You could even avoid doing it phonetically and do it by picturing the letters.

You could even learn the alphabetic position of each letter and do it that way.

In your example Curto = 741 = Curdo = Kurd
When you convert the image of a Kurd back into digits you have 741 and you know this is crt, it won’t take you much to figure out what the exact word is if you somehow forgot it but that is also unlikely. This is definitely an option.

I mean how to convert (for example) “Curto” in “Curdo” categorically, like let’s use this modified Ramon Campayo’s major system to give an example:
0 - R
1 - t
2- n, ñ
3- m
4- c,k,q
5- l
6- s,z
7- f,d
8- ch, j, g
9- v,b,p

If T+10=D, then D+16=T as 26-10=16

Let’s analyse the composition of both words

Curto= 4-01-
Curdo=4-07-

In order for T to become B, it has to has to walk 16 rows, like 1–> 2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7. Then it ends in 7, that is F,D, then is it converted. It would be just a matter to remember the number 16 and that is associated with D.

But now what if D was posited in 8, counting 16 in 16 would never reach the number 8… So I do not know how to avoid that problem.

I want a trick to categorically change numbers that way.

[Parkouristx]

I totally see your point on how that would be a form of mastery. You would need to know the whole history of English, how it transformed, why are there accents, and ideas along those lines. DO you need to know every single thing to master a language? I would say Eminem is a master in the form of rapping words but he is not a master of the English. It seems like it is one of those that cannot be mastered because it is unlimited like Pi. If you memorized a million digits of pi, you might be a master of Pi in some form but not a true master.

What I brought up originally is that no one can learn a language in 1 hour and 30 minutes because it is mathematically impossible due to the amount of info. In English, there are 171476 words in a dictionary and if you managed to memorize one word per minute it would take you over 2800 hours. And that is just words and not grammar. Maybe he can speak basic German which is possible to do in that time frame. I am not sure what people consider mastery of a language.

[SupaTurk]

Danke.

[Parkouristx]

I like talking to you! haha

@user_7e

Perhaps not to be recognised as a master but someone may come at some point and say “you haven’t mastered the language because you don’t know this word” or etc.

With English it’s kind of not infinite because you are not allowed to make your own “English” and just have it be widely recognised. So once you have learned everything all you need to do is keep up with new developments (while there are plenty you should be able to do this in realistic speed).

Hey if Shakespear can make up words, so can we! haha But I do get what you mean. You need to bust your butt to get everything that is currently available then it’s a matter of maintenance.

@user_7e

It should be possible for an expert to potentially learn 25 words a minute.

25 words in a minute is doable but it’s not just a word you are memorizing. It is a vocabulary word so you have to memorize the word and the definition. So you actually have double the work to do since you need to know comer means to eat in Spanish.

Ah that makes more sense than learning a whole language.

[Nodas]

Hi OP.

Your idea is wrong.

Ramon does NOT convert numbers to letters/words.

He is a genius of short-term memory who just sees patterns in numbers,
after a lot of practice filtered from his innate talent.

Also, photographic memory does NOT exist.

But there are already many topics here where we discussed and debunked that perennial myth.

These ‘photographic memory’ popular myths come every now and then, along with other myths and fairtytales of being able to learn an unknown language fluently, in less that 2 hours.

It is nice to discuss these things as bedtime stories,
but these abilities do not exist, and never existed in humans.

Nodas

[SupaTurk]

@Nodas

He is a genius of short-term memory who just sees patterns in numbers,

How could it be done? Give me an example, please.

@Nodas

photographic memory does NOT exist.

Why?

[Nodas]

@user_7e

He states in his book that he converts numbers to letters/words… particularly to images.

All his books are in Spanish.

Actually, what I meant is about single-digit dumbers.

For example, Ramon’s WR of memorizing decimal digits in 1 second
is 20 digits.

Obviously one cannot process 20 images in 1 second.

So, if he really has an image system it has to be at least 1000 images, 000-999 so, in this way he only has to convert around 7 images per second
which according to psychology is feasible.

Because most psychologists agree that short-term memory span is around 7 objects (plus/minus 2)

Anyway, I am not an expert on this.

The WR are here

The World Record For Speed Memorising Numbers

But for 1 second binary the WR is 49 digits.

The problem with such records are very ‘luck oriented’ because 1 task can be very lucky and they avoid the law of large numbers.

For example Ramon’s 20 WR could be something along these lines:

11223 55667
00331 11880

which is obviously much easier than another given set of 20 digits

@SupaTurk

Why?

Because since 1991 there have been 32 World Memory championships (including IAM ) , with dozens or hundreds of participants.

But NOONE was proven to have photographic memory. It is all about methods and techniques.

Even Kim Peek did not have a photographic memory, but a super exceptional one, far above the average.

[Nodas]

@user_7e

234 7163 289
912 1249 971

Somewhat like this : verbally 234912 image system 71631249 , visual working memory 289 971.

(Part of his training is to do verbal reading seperately from the visualisation).

I have an android App called ‘Number Blink 4’
where you can set from 4 to 30 digits, with any time increments starting from 10 milliseconds. Obviously, to break the WR one needs 20 digits in 1000 milliseconds.The problem with Number Blink is that you cannot choose the arrangement of digits. It is a just a straight line.

Ramon uses a special software called ‘Speed-Memory Simulator 2’
where you can make any arrangements of any digits for any given time.

I am not sure if he uses this
3-4-3
3-4-3
arrangement that you mentioned.
But there has to be something along these lines.

I believe the image has to be 3 digits and not 4 digits like you said.
Because 4 digits require 10 thousand images which is too much of a memory load.

I never heard anyone in the memory world having a 10-thousand image system. That’s insanely large

[AttiLa-24 (Andrey Lykov)]

At first, Ramon hasnt a photographic memory and doesnt believe that it exists.

He uses an ordinary 2-digit Major System with one object for every number from 00-99 and almost never use the method of loci. He prefers his own version of SEM3 instead.

His impressive records are the result of regular practice, a reading speed of 2500 per minute and some kind of natural-born talent.

@user_7e

German in 1 hour and 30 minutes and 22k words in 72 hours are very contradictory things.

It was a funny story. He had a lecture planned in Germany. All the time he flew with a dictionary and gave a lecture in this language.

We should consider. That it was revealed by his wife, who herself does not really know how he has done it. I just think that he had a ready speech and memorized it in German.

If my guess is true, it wasn`t an impossible feat.

[HyvesXL (Marcos)]

The German thing in 1 hour and 30 minutes was not so difficult, it was easy and more so for him, what he meant by that was that he memorized the most important words of German approximately 1000-1200 he spoke German but he did not do it very well but he could speak and understand.

[HyvesXL (Marcos)]

even in the interview they had to correct him a couple of times and he had to ask