# How to add position number?

[This thread was copied here from the old forum.]

MajorK 28 September, 2012 - 15:32

I learnt all 46 super bowl winners in order using a journey. I know them so well and have tested myself a lot. I know backwards and forwards. I can recite them all in <60 seconds without mistakes.

If someone asks who is the winner of Super Bowl 5 I can’t tell them instantly. I have to recite 1-5.
That’s not difficult.

However, If someone asks who won Super Bowl 26 it would take too long to count, and I would have to use my fingers to keep track!

How can I add position number to my already learnt journey?

I’m having a similar problem with the periodic table. I know the elements in order but don’t know what 11th element is without counting from the start, one by one!

I’ve just thought about physically drawing my journey and images, and adding numbers. This way I could see that “10” starts at the waterfall, and “20” at the library, etc.

is this a good plan, or is there a better way?

Kinma 29 September, 2012 - 10:10

There is a better way.

So you memorized the NFL Super Bowl winners. 1967-2012.

Add mnemonics for every 5 or 10 years.
Let’s take 10.
This means you add mnemonics for 1970, 1980, 1990, 2000 and 2010.
No need to memorize the centuries, so let’s take them out: 70, 80, 90, 00, and 10
As an example, let’s use the Major system to code those years:
70 = CaSe
80 = VaSe etc.

Let’s assume for now that the waterfall is 1970. In the image you have for 1970, just add a CaSe.
For 1980 you add a VaSe.

Now, if somebody asks you 1972, you start at 1970, find the case in your mind and do 2 steps in your journey.
If somebody asks you 1979, you start at 1980, find the vase in your mind and go back 1 step in your journey.

Josh Cohen 29 September, 2012 - 10:22

Interesting side note: the technique of marking the intervals goes back to the oldest known writing on memory techniques from over 2,000 years ago – Ad Herennium:

And that we may by no chance err in the number of backgrounds, each fifth background should be marked. For example, if in the fifth we should set a golden hand, and in the tenth some acquaintance whose first name is Decimus, it will then be easy to station like marks in each successive fifth background.

Another idea is to use a unique “tag” like having it rain at every 5th locus. Or use number shape images or number rhyme images to mark every 5th location.

5 = 1 – candle
10 = 2 – swan
15 = 3 – butterfly
20 = 4 – flag
25 = 5 – hook

Then, just multiply the number shape by 5 to find the locus. I.e., if you see a hook at the locus, it represents 5. 5x5 = 25… the 25th locus. There are many ways to do it…

Kinma 29 September, 2012 - 14:05

Hi Josh,

I didn’t know that that little technique was already in Ad Herennium.

Cheers!

MajorK 29 September, 2012 - 14:12

Hmm. I haven’t learnt the major or Dominic system because I suffer from the same thing; I can learn the journey, but I can’t learn the interval.

So I can write out all of my dominic system encodings (00 = Ozzie, 01= Nero, etc). But even if you ask me what 24 is I can’t tell you!

It seems my journey and links are quite powerful (I don’t make any mistake when writing them all out in order). But I can’t even learn the interval for the major/Dominic systems either

Am I a freak?

I think I need a modified Dominic/major system that is easier, perhaps uses categories of things. Anything like that?

Kinma 29 September, 2012 - 14:36

This is too easy.

First use your journey to learn a system. So take a 100 loci journey and link to the items in the major or Dominic system.

Also, use Josh’s advice or mine to make little changes to your loci on every 5th or 10th item.
Read the And Herennium part again. It Is packed with good advice.

Last part of advice. Train to associate both ways. If you link the waterfall to an apple you need to be able to think of the apple and see the link to the waterall.
From your words it sounds that you see the waterfall in your journey and from there see the apple. Try it the other way round also.

MajorK 29 September, 2012 - 15:57

Thanks.

Do you have a link to a good translation of herennium? I can’t understand it whatsoever

Kinma 29 September, 2012 - 22:41

Josh’ link is the English translation:

Quote:

And that we may by no chance err in the number of backgrounds, each fifth background should be marked. For example, if in the fifth we should set a golden hand, and in the tenth some acquaintance whose first name is Decimus, it will then be easy to station like marks in each successive fifth background.

Josh Cohen 30 September, 2012 - 13:39

MajorK wrote:

Hmm. I haven’t learnt the major or Dominic system because I suffer from the same thing; I can learn the journey, but I can’t learn the interval.

So I can write out all of my dominic system encodings (00 = Ozzie, 01= Nero, etc). But even if you ask me what 24 is I can’t tell you!

Josh Cohen 30 September, 2012 - 13:44

MajorK wrote:

Do you have a link to a good translation of herennium? I can’t understand it whatsoever

The left side of the page is in Latin, and the right side is in English:

If the style of English is confusing, I would just try to read the sentences repeatedly or try drawing pictures or symbols while digesting the sentences. Or, read a sentence and imagine that you have to summarize it for someone else. After reading a sentence or two, look away from the page and imagine explaining the idea(s) to a student or a class.

There are some form of English that I just can’t understand – like poetry. I never understood poetry until I started memorizing it. It still takes me repeated mental recitals to understand it, but then it sinks in.

MajorK 30 September, 2012 - 13:47

My iPad auto corrected that answer. 01 = Neo (the one. From the matrix). Yes Dominic system.

I’m thinking of modifying the Dominic system so that “A” = actors. So AO-AN are all actors. AO could be any actor with an O-name, eg. Lawrence Olivier.

“B” could be villains, aka bad guys. “C” = cartoon characters. Etc etc. Just categorise everything.

It may be the only way for me to remember Who is assigned to each initial…

Josh Cohen 30 September, 2012 - 15:42

MajorK wrote:

My iPad auto corrected that answer. 01 = Neo (the one. From the matrix). Yes Dominic system.

Ok… that makes sense now.

MajorK wrote:

I’m thinking of modifying the Dominic system so that “A” = actors. So AO-AN are all actors. AO could be any actor with an O-name, eg. Lawrence Olivier.

Good idea… I think that many mnemonists have category systems like that.

Two things I would try are Anki and reading license plates. Don’t look at your cheatsheet until you come across a number that you don’t know the answer to. Active recall speeds up learning.