Hi All,
Did someone experimented with expanding a PAO by adding an object to it (using Major system for example)?
Example:
Normal PAO - 51-44-29 —> Adele / KICKING / RED BUTTON
Object-PAO: 26 - 51 - 44 - 29 —> NaCHo (Major System Image)- Adele / KICKING / RED BUTTON (Adele while being covered in NaCHos KICKING a giant RED BUTTON)
Is this a feasible way of expanding an existing 00-99 PAO to cover 8 digits per loci?
Thanks in advance.
Best,
Rado
Lots of possibilities for expanding the structure of a scene. You can repeat categories, like “Person-Action-Object-Person.” Or you can add categories like “Person-Action-Adjective-Object.” You could go crazy and add multiple new categories and repeat them like “person-action-object-person-adjective-animal-food-vehicle” and cram 16 digits into a scene.
Keep in mind that you aren’t gaining any better data compression by adding more elements to a scene. You still have to encode and decode an intentionally created element for every 2 digits you want to memorize. Usually less complex scenes are easier to encode and recall.
The “advantage” that some will point to is that you need less loci to encode the same number of digits, like if you want to memorize 24 digits, you need to use four loci with 6-digit scenes and only three loci if you create 8-digit scenes, but usually it is MUCH MUCH easier to just use a couple more loci to store the digits than it is to build and accurately recall the more complicated scenes. A huge benefit to using memory palaces is to take advantage of the ease of use and simplicity it offers by giving you the ability to spread information out across instinctively memorable locations. You lose a lot of this benefit if you try to cram too much into a single location.
I build out a Person-Action-Adjective-Object system (fully based on Major) a while ago and used it successfully to memorize thousands of Pi digits. I’ve since moved on a single-association 3-digit system and haven’t regretted the change one bit, as the simplicity in recognition, scene building, and recall is much improved!
I honestly recommend most people DROP an element and go with a simplified PO or PA structure for a 2-digit system as it makes scene generation much more natural and usually faster. Or make the jump to a 3-digit system. I’d recommend that before I’d suggest adding additional categories.
I have expanded it to man-woman-animal-action-object. There are about 10 digits per composition… you can expand it if you want. I have supplemented it with another system, which is the 000-9900 matrix for character and place.
Hi Tim,
Great suggestions! I know Dominic O’Brien used simpler systems to memorize in his earlier years like PA (Person-Action).
May I ask, are you using the TIM SYSTEM at the moment? If yes, I have to say IMO it’s great but nothing in mnemonics appealed to me more than PAO as I’m not native English speaker and systems like the Ben System never clicked for me as I find the images I made with CVC-based approach completely meaningless if they are not in my mother’s tongue - Bulgarian. I tried to translate the systems over but it’s not really successful as the major system is primarily made for the English language…
Thanks for the suggestions though.
Best,
Rado
Hi Magno,
Thanks for that. Do you have any details for your system?
Thanks!
The first characters look for equivalents in the language you use, then animals, actions, and objects… Then order them however you want. For me, the lion is 00 and a mantis is 99. In other words, in the area of animals or insects, I don’t use equivalents with the phonetic system. Men and women are the only ones who have these equivalents. Then everything I put there to be remembered as that number is in a memory palace for the system.
It only took me five days to learn the system, that is, I only learned 20 sets per day. To be faster with the system, you will need practice. It is best to try to go as fast as possible so that your brain itself finds the best way in terms of speed, so you will see parts of the image and not something complete. It works like an auto-corrector in your memory.
Yes, thats my baby!
That’s all good! Use what works for you! Memory techniques are highly individualized based on many variables unique to each person. Language, grammar, pronunciation etc are all big factors in determining the best fit for someone. When I built my system, I knew it wouldn’t be a good fit for some dialects, even within english, and thats ok. I’m glad you identified a method that you like and that you can have good success with. In the end, the system is just vehicle to get you to a place where you can turn the abstract info of cards or numbers into a solid memorable thing. There are lots of ways that can be done. The “best” way is the one that you actually use!
Thanks for your input.
My brain is quite interesting, lol haha, as 00-99 major system is quite intuitive for me, even though I’m not a native English speaker like, for example:
I see 26 and I immediately know: NaCHo
45 —→ RoLL
78 —→ CoFFee
etc..
When there’s two sounds and I adhere to the major system strictly, I’m fine with making my system intuitive but when it comes to creating major system images for three or more digits this is where I get a brainfart and my brain is not finding those mnemonics intuitive hence why PAO is literally the GOAT for me personally as it’s language agnostic.
I wish major system was working better in Bulgarian so that I can have a 3-digit system in my native language. Even in my attempts to translate things over, I get consonants that I can’t ever create an image for. This is the big issue and this is why I can’t use anything else than PAO in my mother’s tongue
Do you have any opinion on a framework I can use to attempt to create any other system than PAO in my native language?
Thanks in advance!
Best,
Rado
Sometimes people limit themselves if they try to only find strictly 3-consonant words and only single words for a 3-digit major list.
One thing that helped me a lot when trying to build that large list was allowing myself to use multi-word phrases or words and phrases that have more than three consonants. Also, allowing the use of words or phrases that aren’t the literal nouns for what I’d picture, but would associate strongly with something…
I’m not sure if this would help in the case of the language you would be working with, but I though it would be worth it to ask if you’ve considered it.
Examples:
913 could be “BaT Man.” (Even though it technically has 4 sounds that would map to major - BTMN 9132 - you can drop anything after the first 3 sounds when you know you are working with a 3-digit system.)
999 could be “pew pew pew” which is the sound a laser gun makes, so maybe the image is Han Solo’s blaster pistol from Star Wars or an X-Wing fighter with it’s laser cannons blasting. Sometimes something silly like that phrase can provide a great image.
Honestly though, 2-digit PAO has been used by people to achieve world record level times for memorizing numbers and cards. If it is working for you, stick with it and keep pushing yourself faster with it!
Exactly! This is a very good advice but 1000 images are hard to master and maintain IMO. PAO served me well so far.
I’m pushing my limits and trying to become fast at home before I embark on a competition as I’m kind of a “perfectionist” lol, but hopefully will sign up for competition to test everything in the wild but PAO has done miracles for me so far. I just love how my brain compresses the data with PAO.
But there’s no right or wrong of course as long as one sticks with their system.
I’m confident that one day someone would take over Shijir’s record with PAO. 