encoding 19 digits, into a single PAO image?

[kleinstein]

ok, so i decided to memorize the first 50 numbers in the fibinacci sequence, and this exposed a problem i’m not sure how to tackle within my system. specifically, how to compress a 19 digit number into a single pao style image. this will be a long post with lots of details…

my system is a 3-2-2-2 paoq (person, action, object, quote)

• person 000-999
  action 00-99
  object 00-99
  quote 00-99

and a PAO for single digits 0-9

• person 0-9
  action 0-9
  object 0-9

so for a single locus, i can cleanly encode 9 digits 3-2-2-2 (paoq). what i’m looking for, is how to stretch out how many numbers i can encode in a single locus. i was able to stretch it to 10 digits using 3-2-2-3 (paop), and think i could further stretch it to 12 with the same idea 3-2-2-2-3 (paoqp)

but i’m not sure how to expand past that for a string of numbers say 13-19 digits long, in the same locus, preserving the numbering location of each loci… ie 37th spot is the 37th number

using fibonacci and 50 locus in a 100 loci memory palace, i was able to encode 1 to 10 digit length numbers in each locus, using the following strategy

clarifying that at each locus, the length of digits to memorize, was from 1 to 10 digits long. my loci are grouped in 10’s, so i can easily say, go to the 37th locus and recite 14930352 as the 37th fibonacci number. this is why i want to compress more numbers into a single locus

here are some of the different length numbers in fibonacci, and how i went about adjusting my system for organizing the memo:

(details on how i used my system to encode different length numbers)

• • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • /

• 0
  1 digit (person)
  used the 1 digit person from single 0-9 pao
  (0)

• 13
  2 digits (person)
  used a 2 digit person from 000-999 pao, ignoring the 0 in 013… so 013, just becomes 13
  (13)

• 144
  3 digits
  used a 3 digit person from 000-999 pao
  (144)

• 1597
  4 digits (person / object)
  used a 2 digit person from 000-999 pao, ignoring the 0, and a 2 digit object
  (15-97)

• 10946
  5 digits (person / object)
  used a 3 digit person from 000-999 pao, 2 digit object
  (109-46)

• 121393
  6 digits (pao)
  used a 3 digit person, 2 digit action, 1 digit object (could have also done 2-2-2)
  (121-39-3)

• 1346269
  7 digits (pao)
  used a 3 digit person, 2 digit action, 2 digit object
  (134-62-69)

• 14930352
  8 digits (pao / quote)
  used 2 digit person, 2 digit action, 2 digit object, 2 digit quote
  (14-93-03-52)

• 102334155
  9 digits (pao / quote)
  used a 3 digit person, 2 digit action, 2 digit object, 2 digit quote
  (102-33-41-55)

• 7777887749
  10 digits (pao / 2nd person)
  used a 3 digit person, 2 digit action, 2 digit object, 3 digit person
  (777-78-87-749)

• • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • • /

this brought me to the 50th number of fibonacci, so it ultimately worked for my desired purpose. and this was the first time that i really experimented with using my encoding system to account for all kinds of number lengths

and as you can see, i switched around how i used the system in different ways to get to the desired number length to memorize while keeping the imagery easy to recall

but here’s my dilema…

i want to memorize this power of 2 table…

(a 64 bit signed integer)

so cleanly, my 9 digit encoding system will work great for up to the 29th entry (536 87 09 12)

but i’m not sure how to expand my system beyond that, to allow longer numbers to be placed in a single locus… as my 9 digit system becomes tapped out.

i figured out how to do a 10 digit number in fibonacci, by replacing the the quote with another person (paop) 3-2-2-3, and i suppose i could stretch it further by going (paoqp) and getting 3-2-2-2-3 for 12 numbers… but how can i stretch the imagination and imagery to get those final numbers which are 19 digits long… including the inevitable lengths of 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18 as well

has anyone pushed their system to allow the encoding of numbers this large with a single locus per number? how does that look?

what a paoq/paoq?
a person… doing an action, with an object, saying a quote, to another person… doing an action, with an object, saying another quote, and still being 1 digit shy?

• the biggest number i’ll need for the last locus is 19 digits long:
• 9 223 372 036 854 775 808

but again, i’d like to be able to go to say the 50th power of 2, stored at the 50th locus, and recite the 16 digit number: 1 125 899 906 842 624, which is well beyond the normal scope of my 9 digit system.

even stretching my system to 12 digits, i’d only get to the 39th of 64 numbers before the length exceeds my encoding.

any ideas on compressing these numbers?

fibonacci pic for reference:

[phamm (Philip)]

Hey, I don’t have an idea on compressing numbers but what about a loci substructure? You could use a person from your 3 digit list as the person on a locus and then use it’s body as a substructure (10 loci body list etc.) and encode the rest of the numbers there with your PAO systems. If you always apply the same order on the bodies it should not be too confusing. Cheers

[TheHumanTim]

You’re not really compressing anything in a very useful or efficient sense. You need the same number of elements whether you use a single scene made of 20 elements or 10 scenes with each made up of just two. All that this does is just stuff more elements into a more complex scene. I don’t think this makes it any easier to encode or recall. If anything, I think it would be harder to recall all of those details in a single scene.

I mentioned this in reply to someone recently on reddit when they asked about storing 10 digits in one location using 5 different 2-digit element types rather than just simplifying the scenes and using more loci per sequence…

"People have this odd view of memory palaces as these things to be conserved and preserved. They’re treated like rare action figures. People acquire them, keep them in the box, and resist taking them out and playing with them. I see people all the time trying to find ways to store more things at fewer loci. This defeats the whole advantage that memory palaces convey.

Memory palaces are meant to be used! Use them! Its ok if a sequence needs multiple locations. I’d much rather space a number sequence across multiple locations than try to cram a massively complex scene into one. You’ll know that you need 10 digits for a phone number or 16 for a credit card. So keep moving through your locations until you’ve recalled the number of digits you need. Don’t worry about cramming them all into one spot."

I think it was you in a thread where someone asked about memorizing car VIN numbers where you said you construct scenes with a Stop Sign to signal that you’ve reached the end of the sequence. Thats a really clever way of being able to stretch a sequence as long as it needs to go, across several loci and several simple scenes. It doesn’t matter how many loci the sequence uses, when you’re done you’ll know and you won’t need this complex structure to do it.

If you’re really dead set on trying to stick with specifically numbered loci so that you can reference back to that specific power, then I like @phamm’s idea of creating sub-loci to contain the additional (simple) scenes. You can set this up however you want, I like the idea of just zooming in on your locus and picking out however many detail reference points you need to store the full sequence in almost like a new mini palace within a locus. This way your “main” locus would still be numbered for reference, but then you don’t have to try to cram a bloated and overly complex single scene into it.

[kleinstein]

i built a 200 location palace that i’ve been saving for something worth remembering. (not overwriting) it’s made of 2 journeys: an outside path, and an inside path. each 100 is set up as a 10x10 clockwise loop

it has a nice structure which makes it easy to jump to any number (say 75) and find it easily. so i want what i’m storing there to have an added value to this function in design

for powers of 2, it’d be useful to get to the exact number. and you hit it on the head, that’s why i wanted to be able to add more numbers to a locus

@TheHumanTim

"People have this odd view of memory palaces as these things to be conserved and preserved. They’re treated like rare action figures. People acquire them, keep them in the box, and resist taking them out and playing with them…

guilty as charged with this one until now…

but, i have a dozen palaces i use and write over all the time for things like cards & rubiks cubes. however the structure of the 200 location one seems special enough in it’s design, to use for something where getting to the the exact location has a value… such as the 32nd power of 2.

@TheHumanTim

If you’re really dead set on trying to stick with specifically numbered loci so that you can reference back to that specific power, then I like @phamm’s idea of creating sub-loci to contain the additional (simple) scenes…

exactly this

100 loci total should be enough to hold all the numbers i want, but i would lose the ability to jump to the precise start of the “44th power of 2” starting at the “44th location” for example

i find this a bit annoying in my 1000 digits of pi, where i can’t simply jump to a location to start at the 500th number, or say find what number is at the 762nd position (that’s a 9 joke). i don’t have any idea where the 500th digit is, as i encoded each locus with 7 digits

i think this is becoming an exercise in learning how to wax and wane with the lengths of numbers in a memo, and it’s turning out to be a fun challenge

i’ll start experimenting with @phamm’s idea, and zoom in to a person or object at those longer number locations, and see what i can come up with. (i haven’t tried to do this before)

thanks for the tip

• here’s the palace i mapped out (prifddnas in runescape)

• here’s a zoom in on the center lode stone starting location, and the first 10 loci

i have 20 of these maps in total. and in game i can walk around these areas, move the camera, zoom in/out and fully explore the minute or grand details while i’m memorizing or working on recall.

it’s a grand palace!

[phamm (Philip)]

Another thought. If you are going for long term retention and not speed, you can also create longer conversion images using the major system (if you are used to that). Go for words that cover more images or maybe create a catchy phrase like Harry Lorayne taught, for example „A stark naked man jumps up and down.“ to encode the number 014727132639092112.

[kleinstein]

ooh, that’s a super interesting line!

my 1000 person paoq is primarily movie based

only 20% of the lines use the major system. i am familiar with it, and do use it to recall some people, but it’s a minor (hah) part of my system

and yes, this is for long term retention, not speed

i’ll test out catch phrases on the longer ones and see what i can come up with. thanks for your insight!

[phamm (Philip)]

Glad to be of help. Please let us know how it‘s going.