Does memory technique really help improve memory?

Hey everyone!

It’s been a while since I started training myself in memory techniques, and to my surprise, I’ve noticed significant progress in recalling images, words, and numbers. Nowadays, I’m focusing more on quicker times. What’s concerning is that despite this progress, I haven’t seen a noticeable improvement in my overall memory, which was my primary goal.

Lately, I’ve been experiencing frequent forgetfulness—misplacing my keys at home, struggling to remember names upon meeting someone for the first time, and forgetting details from my past, like a friend’s name or a favorite walking spot.

Reflecting on this, I wonder if these techniques are merely enhancing my proficiency in the techniques themselves rather than improving my memory fundamentally.

Could I be approaching this wrong? Perhaps my focus on speed, possibly driven by my involvement in memory leagues, is detracting from the broader goal of enhancing memory over the long term.

I would greatly appreciate any insights or suggestions.

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Yes, I believe that to be the case. I don’t think memory methods improve natural memory as you were expecting. They need to be applied for you to see any effect. After you start using them, their application starts to require less effort, though.

That being said, some may still argue that memory training improves memory because it’s a type of mental exercise, which may reduce cognitive aging. I think that makes sense, but then memory methods wouldn’t be any different than any other challenging activity in this regard.

Although your natural memory is the same, you can still apply your new knowledge of memory methods to improve your daily life, so let’s analyze the problems you mentioned and find solutions:

This is just a bad habit. I would recommend you to have a place in your house where you should store all the things you need to take when leaving the house: house keys, car key, wallet, phone, ID, credit card, bus ticket, or anything like that. Initially, make the conscious effort to remind yourself to use this location, and after a while it will become a habit.

This is one example of how memory training doesn’t improve memory. Indeed, you won’t remember the name if you don’t apply the method, so I recommend you to associate the name of the person to their face. Another option is to simply pay attention to their name and say it back to them a few times during your first conversation.

This is maybe one of the hardest things to solve with memory methods because your past includes so many things that would be impossible to memorize all of it using the methods. Something that may be helpful would be journalling, which could include the most important details of your day. I’ve found it very helpful to have an all-in-one storage of ideas, experiences, and memories that filter all the important ones. If you forget something important, you can still recheck it there. If you reread some days there, you may even recover the memories of that day. They weren’t necessarily lost, but just unaccessible, so reading the journal can trigger the memory back.

Something else that you didn’t mention, but may be happening as well is forgetting daily tasks, like forgetting to take the trash outside when getting home. For this, I would recommend you to have a to-remember memory palace, where you should include all information you want to remember for the day. This won’t have an in-built alarm that will notify you to do something, but if you get in the habit of checking this palace many times throughout the day, you’ll rarely forget the items you put there. To avoid ghosting, you may use a very long journey. I myself use the path from my childhood house to my high school.

An alternative is to associate the task to a place you’re gonna walk through at the moment you want to remember the task. For instance, you may imagine a giant garbage dirtying the front of your house. When you get there, you may remember the mental image and therefore the task too. This is the only way I know of building an internal notification system.

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Really appreciate the elaborate answer So, all in all, the technique does not involve imporving the memory section of the brain. (I was wondering if there is any academic research on it? )It’s more about practicing over time; it’s similar to playing a video game where the more you play, the better you become. Also, it’s not just about forgetting the key . In general, I have this feeling that working on this technique doesn’t make me efficient in other aspects of my life where having a decent memory can shine through.

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Yes. I think the best option is to find ways of applying memory methods to your real life, but it won’t happen automatically and unconsciously.

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My memory is horrible unless Im actively using it.

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Same.

I have found that if I WANT to remember something and I remember to use memory techniques, I will almost always remember what I want to remember.

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I take out the trash in the morning when I go to work, and so that I don’t forget it, the first thing I do after I wake up is put the trash can behind the door of the house so that I remember to take it with me when I go out to work. If I have to take something while I go out to work, I put it next toThe door as soon as I remember that, then I continue getting dressed and getting ready to go out

Aren’t most of the daily life problems more organisation than memory?

I mean I may not have taken the trash out when I wanted to, because I didn’t think of it. Forgetting it would mean the concept of taking it out every Tuesday is foreign to me and I have to recheck which day is trash removal and replan accordingly. Like you’d be better served with stacking habits than a memory palace in this case…

Or I don’t remember names of people because I’m nervous of meeting strangers so I was more thinking about what I was going to say in the conversation and so didn’t pay attention. I didn’t really forget, I just didn’t have the memory in the first place, etc.

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This is a good point and kind of brings in a possible discussion point that memory techniques aren’t always the answer to everything. Sometimes its ok to “outsource” our memory to external management (note app reminders, alarms, etc.) when the goal is to build a habit. Its maybe heretical on a memory forum to suggest that occasionally (maybe often) technological aids are superior to raw memory techniques, but I consider all “augmentations” whether technological, mental, or analog to be of potential and varying benefit depending on the goal.

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I agree with that a lot. For instance, things like having an entire calendar memory palace isn’t that effective since it wouldn’t have an alarm to alert us of incoming appointments. It would also require a lot of reviewing and rewriting information, possibly leading to ghosting.

However, I believe that memory methods are still great for some of these small things. When I didn’t use memory methods for months, I felt a HUGE inertia. I couldn’t bring myself to memorize even a 10-item list. I would prefer to walk to the other side of the house, get a piece of paper, a pen, write the items down, and make sure to store the list somewhere I would remember rather than memorizing it (although it would have taken much less time). The fact I hadn’t been practicing at all made the methods so aversive to me that I couldn’t use them even when they were worth it. After I started using this to-remember memory palace, I could practice the methods often enough to lose that lazy aversion. In conclusion, sometimes technology may seem more practical, but using memory methods has the advantage of ensuring we’ll stay familiar with them.

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Yeah, its a true issue that you can see everyone seems to struggle with. I can imagine that to improve natural memory takes a dkfferent approach. As opposed to our artificial memory/memory craft. What seems to be a big issue here is Attention. All of this is about attention. Forgetting your keys as an example representing all kinds of moments where your ‘memory’ could have helped are really about attention…

All the techniques we use are attention focussers. PAO demands full atention, and we never forget. So can these excercises help. No if you think that memorizing a deck will magically improve your daily life but yes if you take that attention excercises and improve your attention for the present. I struggle with this the same way. My head is in the clouds as my wife says, which is true i dream of stuff and thus dont focus on the stuff in front of me and thus forget.

Good luck paying your attention

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I didn’t respond right away to your post as I imagined that most of the things I could say will be said by other forum members anyway, like with the forgetting of where you put your keys as not really being a memory thing. So let’s see if I can say something original.

It seems that you thought that by training very specific memory tasks you could improve your overall memory.

What does overall memory mean?

Imagine that someone tells you he has mastered 20 new (for him/her) languages in a single year at a level that he can read newspapers in those languages and understand most of it. Would it be fair to tell him/her that that’s nice but his overall language mastery has not improved, because he/she still doesn’t speak a word of Klingon.

I have a feeling that you have the illusion of knowing what you mean by overall memory, but haven’t really articulated it well. If this …

significant progress in recalling images, words, and numbers.

… doesn’t qualify as an improvement of overall memory, then neither would possible improvements of the things you mention below …

Lately, I’ve been experiencing frequent forgetfulness—misplacing my keys at home, struggling to remember names upon meeting someone for the first time, and forgetting details from my past, like a friend’s name or a favorite walking spot.

As a matter of fact I would argue that there is no finite collection of memory tasks that you could improve upon that would lead you to the conclusion that you have improved your overall memory.

It seems to me that if overall memory in your reasoning is not something that can be measured by your performance of a finite amount of memory tasks, then it also simply can’t be articulated as a collection of abilities, but perhaps as something that underlies these abilities.

Russian dolls

https://lh7-us.googleusercontent.com/kSGemUqKxLpiL5Dr_7ZZG_JYufYnNzCctm0Pkvwc9kJCDUu_vOnGow2PSMk-k-01VsB8aN9tDVkv8411PqdvpilZkIuCsHowD2IFe3YrKhyC6FccV5ygwa2TVKyLMqp0zEz13dg5MK4gSm7xMTE3zBI

If the biggest doll represents all your memory abilities, it would not represent your overall memory given, as I have demonstrated above, that it can’t be defined as a collection of abilities. The second doll may represent things such as mnemonics and other knowledge of how to make the most of your fundamental (very arbitrary word, I have to admit) memory abilities. The third doll might represent things such as the way your brain is structured and how the various parts are connected. The fourth doll may represent the quality of neurons and other small scale physiology that is crucial for memory performances. Is there a doll that could possibly represent overall memory or in which you could find it? Do you even know what it is you are actually looking for?

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From my point of view, I would not call all this signs of poor memory.

There is: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3348454/
But this doesn’t seem to be what you’re looking for

If we are talking about specific situations, then it won’t. But if we are talking about something like constantly taking out the trash, then over time this will become a habit so that the mnemonic is no longer needed, although initially it can be used

I think Daniel was talking about how he could do this using mnemonics.
I think that using the mnemonic itself taps into different aspects of memory. If you become better at mnemonics, then not only at mnemonics but at all types of memory that are required for it.

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I don’t understand how my quote relates to the sentence you have put under it. The main point of my reply was that this concept of “overall memory” in combination with Daniel’s statements about what he considers not to be improvements of that kind of memory, leads to the possible conclusion that it doesn’t mean anything at all. So if you say “I think Daniel was talking about how he could do this using mnemonics” then what do you mean with “this”?; How would you define overall memory in a way that doesn’t contradict the statements of Daniel regarding what doesn’t qualify as improvements of that kind of memory? And finally :joy: what argument do you think I was making in the sentence you chopped up :confused: and what does that have to do with what you are saying underneath it?

I think that using the mnemonic itself taps into different aspects of memory.

I don’t know what you mean with this sentence. Could you give examples of those different aspects and how they relate to mnemonics?

If you become better at mnemonics, then not only at mnemonics but at all types of memory that are required for it.

What types of memory are required for mnemonics? How does getting better at mnemonics lead to getting better at those types of memory?

Perhaps you mean the opposite of what you say, as in you can apply those mnemonics for other memory tasks than what you have used them for initially. I am puzzled by how you describe mnemonics as something independent of memory (tasks). Isn’t the whole point of mnemonic that they improve certain memory abilities?

I would assume that if someone for example shows he can memorize a deck of cards in 30 seconds, that he has a system (mnemonics) for that. I feel that saying he is good at mnemonics would be a weird thing to say, like how is that supposed to be something different from the actual card memorisation?

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I can describe how I understood your words: “If improving the performance of the following type of tasks does not count as an improvement in general memory, then it cannot be improved by improving the performance of any tasks.”
I took Daniel’s message as follows: “I can do these things, but only by using mnemonics.” That is, if there was an improvement in performing these tasks without the use of mnemonics, then this would be considered an improvement in overall memory.

Of course, I could have misinterpreted the meaning of both your message and Daniel’s message. In that case, sorry

Okay, but I will refer exclusively to my personal experience, I hope you don’t mind. When I first started studying the method of loci, I had problems with the visual perception of the memory palace itself, despite the fact that I used familiar places. I had problems remembering the very objects that I placed in the memory palace (especially when they were diverse, made movements or transformations). The most difficult thing was probably to remember what concept/fact the object refers to. But in the end, I got better at doing all these tasks that I consider as auxiliary to using the method of loci

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That sounds about right.

I took Daniel’s message as follows: “I can do these things, but only by using mnemonics.” That is, if there was an improvement in performing these tasks without the use of mnemonics, then this would be considered an improvement in overall memory.

He is not actually saying that, but I feel that it may very well be similar to what he meant. I hope you can agree with me that it is very difficult for someone like me that only reads …

I think Daniel was talking about how he could do this using mnemonics.

… to understand that what you meant to say is what you described above. It wasn’t even clear to me what you meant with “this”; I obviously got it wrong by guessing you were talking about overall memory instead of those memory abilities he had mentioned.

With regards to your statement …

If you become better at mnemonics, then not only at mnemonics but at all types of memory that are required for it.

… and the follow up explanation …

When I first started studying the method of loci, I had problems with the visual perception of the memory palace itself, despite the fact that I used familiar places. I had problems remembering the very objects that I placed in the memory palace (especially when they were diverse, made movements or transformations). The most difficult thing was probably to remember what concept/fact the object refers to. But in the end, I got better at doing all these tasks that I consider as auxiliary to using the method of loci.

I feel that you are trying to have your cake and eat it too.

If you take away all the (what you consider to be) auxiliary tasks of the method of loci there is nothing left. I feel that is like saying “playing football doesn’t only make you better at playing football, but also at running and kicking a ball”.

If you do not consider all these auxiliary tasks as part of the method of loci or other mnemonics then what do you have in mind when you say “better at mnemonics”?

Hey @erikfromholland, thank you for your input. That’s an excellent question. To be candid, the reason behind my inquiry delves deeper. It seems that mnemonics might not directly correlate with what one might typically consider “improving memory.” I aim to elucidate a couple of points:

  1. My motivation for delving into memory techniques.
  2. What exactly constitutes “overall memory”?

Despite possessing a solid academic background and tackling challenging subjects, I’ve always struggled with retaining small details or transitioning information from short-term to long-term memory. Upon reading “Unlimited Memory,” I believed I had found a solution. While these techniques aided in memorization, they didn’t necessarily enhance my ability to memorize intricate details faster, such as a biochemical formula, unless I utilized memory palaces.

This leads to the second point: What defines overall memory? There’s the academic definition, but there’s also a personal perspective. For instance, my brother possesses what I perceive as a robust overall memory. He can effortlessly recall numerous details without employing any memory techniques. For example, he can recall what we ate six months ago while playing basketball or the name of a person we met at a bar ten months ago.

I’ve always aspired to have this capacity to recall such minute details. This is why I ventured into this field. My goal isn’t to engage in memory competitions or boast about memorizing 30 images in 20 seconds. Rather, if these techniques can assist me in memorizing all the details of a business meeting, that would be a significant achievement worth investing my time in.

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One thing I did recently when we had an incident at work was I memorized the prescriptions the optometrist prescribed our doctor.

I smoothly desribed these medications and the client said “sounds more preventative, we may be able to consider it a first aid”.

There’s a huge use in speeches/sales/presenting for memory techniques.

Also, id recommend even non memory athletes train in the words event. You don’t need to do anything crazy but it will help develop the talent of encoding information and storing it in a memory palace.

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Sorry if I overlooked or misunderstood something in your post, but I still don’t know what you mean with overall memory. You say there is an academic definition, but you don’t tell me what it is :sob:.

Proclus thought you meant with overall memory, the memory you have without using mnemonics (he is guessing as much as I am), but that doesn’t feel related to what you just said.

Yes, you’re right. Sorry for the misunderstanding

Yes, but this is really so.

Using your football metaphor, I would say that we can learn to run faster and kick a ball better, but this will not necessarily make us good football players because playing football is still a whole skill