Differences between Personality Types when it comes to visualisation / memorization

General Memory Chat
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Hi!

I’ve read a bit about personality types lately,
and I’ve come to think more about how different personality types think.

I already knew the concepts of Introvert vs Extroverts,
but now I also learned a bit more about Sensing vs Intuitive.

Apparently, Intuitive people are those who are thinking more in the way of concepts and patterns,
while Sensing people think more “in the moment”, the now and then, well, the senses…

I can’t help but think that there must be a big difference between someone Intuitive would visualize his memory palace, versus how someone Sensing would do it.

Personally I’m a Sensing type ( INTP )
and when I “visualize” things in my palace, it’s more in the shape of ideas and feelings ( although I’m usually really distant from my feelings ).
But I’ve often seen people here discuss about “not being able to visualize clearly”.
So maybe that’s the missing piece of the puzzle? Maybe the Sensing people can more easily see images while they visualize, while Intuitive people can see, or “feel” ideas?

Oh, and apparently, there’s only about 25% of the population which is “Intuitive”, but it’s about 50-50 split for the other 3 categories.

So that 25% would also explain why only few people seems to have difficulty visualizing.
(Or at least, only a few people actually ask help about it)

I’d also like to see what are the differences in memorization for the other categories.

I’m sure there would also be differences between :

  • Introvert and Extrovert
  • Feeling and Thinking
  • Prospecting and Judging

I just don’t think anyone has ever taken these into account when memory was studied…
but wouldn’t it make sense,
to take into account how the person thinks when studying how effectively what technique works for that person to memorize?

Who knows, maybe if we dig a little, we could find exactly what is optimal for each of the different categories ^^

I’m not claiming that these personality tests are 100% true.
But I am sure that it holds some truth about how different people uses their brain in different ways.

Here’s my 2 sources,
where I did my tests to find what personality type I am :
https://www.16personalities.com/personality-types
where I read more concrete information on what is the differences between the different types :
(This site has more cheezy material, in my opinion, but if you dig a bit in these two links you should find the most interresting parts the site has to offer : )
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I stopped giving any credibility to the Myers-Briggs test, long time ago.

Stereotyping 16 global personality types, reminds of stereotyping 12 global distinct astrological profiles which is also a total pseudoscience.

Such tests only create unnecessary false dichotomies. Noone can be a total extrovert or a total introvert, and so on. Even the personalities’ continuum, set a priori for all 4 dichotomies (ranging from 0% to 100%) is totally arbitrary and cannot be backed by the scientific method. All 7.5 billion people are totally different, de facto. (by having different neural connections). So, we all learn differently, even when it comes to memory methods, because we have different backgrounds and different prior knowledge.

Nice articles to back up my views:

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Myers-Briggs_Type_Indicator

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/the-myers-briggs-personality-test-is-pretty-much-meaningless-9359770/

http://sharpbrains.com/blog/2014/07/22/debunking-myers-briggs-personality-test-what-is-it-good-for/

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Well, looks like my bold font in the last post wasn’t bold enough…

I already mentioned that it’s not accurate like the site claims it is.
But what I said, the only line in bold, is that it holds some truth.
Which you seems to have ignored or maybe you don’t realize it?

I’m not here to educate you, I can only give you the advice of looking back to both link I posted, and find what is good information on both links.

I promise there’s some good info.

But you’re right for one thing,
I did not put enough emphasis on the fact that : These sites also try to sell people a fair load of bull****.
But I thought that critical thinking was a given, and therefore I did not need to specify on every thing I say or share that “critical thinking is advised”.

I could’ve given more warnings on the MBTI system, but this post isn’t supposed to be a complete course on the system, its pros, cons, political aspects and favourite foods in winter…
It’s just using an aspect of the MBTI and making a correlation with memorization, which brings to mind an aspect of memorization which isn’t often put to light.

If you want to find your true self, you’re just not at the right place once again. :wink:

Hmm… lastly, comparing astrology with this system is more like comparing a toddler’s throw to an high-school baseball pitcher :
Astrology simply push you in a direction, given it’s mood.
MBTI throws you toward a target, but lots of factors might affect the ball. (And it doesn’t aim soo well)
There might be a Sniper-like system out there, which is really f**ing good at hitting the target.
But even if there was, in the concept of this forum’s post, we really don’t need something super accurate anyway.

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I feel like personality tests like the Myers-Briggs test are often taken out of their intended purpose. I often hear people say that they believe personality tests exist to show you or others what kind of personality you have.

Total BS.

It is BS because of one simple thing: roles. The second you step in a different role, your personality changes. At work when I am busy analyzing the people in the working space, I don’t want to be seen. I want to remain on the background and only sometimes give feedback when it is really needed. Then suddenly someone asks me something, and instantly I have to go to a helper role, in which I have to be seen. At the end of the day I have to talk with an employee, in which I have to switch to the role of boss in which I have to be seen and in which I need to demand attention, because what I will say is important. My personality changes based on the role.

now back to the tests. In the Myers-Briggs test, I am hopping around between INTJ, ENTJ and ESTJ when I am feeling the most neutral. The way to look at it is the following:

  1. look for constants, in my case T and J, meaning I am both a logical thinker and a judger. I am objective and structurized by nature. (autism ftw!)
  2. order the parts from high to low, and keep an eye on the mood in which the test is made. In my neutral mood, I scored high on T (logical thinking) and J (judging), then I had two times E (extravert) over once I (Introvert) among with two times N (Intuition) over once S (Sensing/obeservant). So while switching around, I tend to the extravert and open-minded, with a hunger for knowledge. But I do have an introvert side with a focus on what is happening around me.

What I like about the Myers-Briggs test, is that the results are given in a scale instead of absolutes. I am not 100% ENTJ and the test tells me that.

Now, the result is of complete worthlessness to me personally, but it is of meaning to professionals working with me. Say my superior calls me to his office, and starts talking about the feelings on the workplace and how he feels I should be bla bla bla… even when typing about it I feel like slamming my face into my desk. You don’t reach me by adressing feelings, but when feeding me statistics, information and objective results… you might give me quite the pleasant inforgasm there.

Same works the other way around if I have to talk with one of my employees. Say I have to talk with someone who is completely all about feelings, someone who feels like mourning after accidentally stepping on a ladybug. The moment I feed that person a lot of statistics, I think I can scrape pieces of exploded brain off the walls. Instead, I might have to say that customers are a lot happier if she puts the storage carts on the sides of the path instead of in the middle. Would I make the test while being in that mood, I will score high on feelings and prospecting, so I would get a -FP personality type. introvert/extravert and observant/intuitive will too depend on the role. Would you take that type of communication to me, and tell me you want the customers to be more happy, my first thought would be something like “oh, great, so we gonna give the products away for free now?”

We all are 100% of the scale on which we are tested, but we have a preferred area which we like more than the other bits. Meaning that surely you can talk to me about feelings and birds and bees andvomits, but you will achieve way better results in the conversation when you come with objective information. That is what the tests are about.

The 16personalities test shows your preferences on four areas:

  • Interaction with environment (Introvert / Extravert)
  • Processing of information (Observant / Intuitive)
  • Dealing with emotions and decisions (Thinking / Feeling)
  • Aproach to executing tasks (Judging / Prospecting)
    The results of which show me what your preferred method is in the mood you have at the moment of making the test. That helps me communicate about things with you, it doesnt tell me anything I can’t see myself, it even shows me less than I can see myself, as it is a single framed moment instead of a full, complete image.

connecting it to image forming in mnemonics, I must say I have doubts at the concept in an aware way, as in the end I believe our brains will figure out what works. And what we have is actually a pretty good way to get there. Like when we tell people to make the image more vivid, what does that mean? Does it mean to make it realistic? more detailed? or add more senses? Add a personal reaction? People will work with your advice in a way that is fitting for them.

I also wonder what effects it would have even… Do the objective INTJs who will want things to be as they are supposed to be, need different things than ESFPs who love parties and the use of all different kinds of senses? Maybe the INTJ palace is more simple and fragmented to leave only the important bits while the ESFP palace is full of color and things moving around. But in the end, that is how they imagine it already in the first place.

So perhaps instead of asking people about their personality test scores, maybe all you need to ask is, “how do you visualize your home?”

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Well,
I have to simply insist that think there’s more to it than that.

But I didn’t post here to debate whether or not the Myers-Briggs system is good.
I could write an essay on why I think the Myers-Briggs can give us some interesting info,
but you don’t seem particularly interested in changing your mind anyway, plus, that’s not the point of the post.

The reason I posted here is that I find the idea interesting and I would have liked to collect more data on it.
I thought that if there would be a place where people would be interested in looking for a bit more answers about memory ant the mind, it would be here.
I know there’s some controversy about the Myer-Briggs system, still, I didn’t expect people to be so much on the defensive.
What wrong would it do to explore the idea?

If I’m wrong and the way people visualize isn’t linked to where they class on this personality system, then so be it, I was wrong.
But we will never know until we try :wink:

And if I’m right?
There would be yet one more tool to use and improve our memorization with!
It’s probably not really different than when people try to get “in the zone”.
But what that said “zone” is just a good balance of thinking vs feeling or sensing vs intuition?

-=-=-=-=-=-

But if that’s not an idea that people want to explore, so be it, let this post die in oblivion.
I’m just gonna point out that although people seem to criticize the personality classification, there’s some facts in this very post which gives it credit :

  • I was classified as the INTP, and I’m the one : Exploring crazy ideas, asking questions and sharing ideas which disturb and shake the general ideas of society ( the idea here, being the informed/scientific one, which shows that Myer’s briggs is bull**** )
  • Mayarra was classified as an xxTJ, and loves to get some stats and data.
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If you have either proof, or a better opinion on a matter, my mind will be adjusted :slight_smile: That is how my mind works, unless the new information exceeds the old in completeness or correctness, the old will stay. In the end, I want a theory that explains the whole in the best way possible, if you have a theory better than mine I will adjust mine.

I do believe however, that if you plan on using a test to test something, you first have to know what the test exactly tests, and that isn’t always precisely what it says it tests.

but that beside the point, how do you imagine the I/E, N/S, T/F and J/P to influence the way we memorize?

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You suggest using our MBTI profile as a tool to make something more memorable. Interesting.
The scientific validity of MB is a red herring, and not the issue here. The test is just a bunch of questions asking the same preferences over and over and over again, If I answered truthfully, it should reflect my answers . This would hold true If the questions related to my preference for apples vs oranges, or Star Trek vs Star Wars. . It does not mean I hate one, just that I prefer the other. If I prefer Star Trek, I may find Spock more memorable than Luke Skywalker. Good to know.
If my MBTI answers lean more to Introvert vs Extrovert, I may find interactions between people not as memorable. We are all different. After work my husband (strong E) talks about the people. I (strong I) don’t even listen to their names. I struggle remembering “who” but I do remember the substance of the interaction and if the person is credible. (even if i forgot who they were). This tells me I need to take extra time to flesh out the people in my PAO. Something I have always struggled with, but didn’t know why.
I am an INTP, Strong I/N but borderline T/F and P/J . This means like Mayarra, I will change profiles, depending upon the situation.
So rather than using my full profile, I’ll explore using my strong ‘I/N’ to flesh out my PAO and Palaces.
Thanks for the idea Dargonesti.

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Oh my… I forgot about this for so long :o Sorry about that!

Hmm, it’S been a while since I tought about that, but I think I could come up with some additional insight.

First of, as @Mayarra said, we tend to hop from one mindset to an other ( and our personality follows with the mindset ).
But most people have strong tendencies, and have certain mindsets they know they’ll need need very hard to reach, while other are always close by.

In my case, it would usually be very hard to get in a mindset where I’m close to my emotions and let them flow freely… I might be able to do it if I isolated myself for a few minutes, but yet again, maybe it’s the kind of day where I simply can’t.

An other example for me is wether or not I’m mostly aware of what surrounds me, versus if I’m mostly deed in my toughts, and ignoring my surroundings.
In that case, I could probably switch my state of mind by doing a quick run, exercices and stretches.

As for how it affects memorizing, it’s hard to tell, especially since I have almost no data except some from myself. That’s why I made this post in the first place, to get insights from more people and see if there was some correlations between the personalities people tends toward, and how they memorize, visualize, and what works for them.

Maybe what @dinob said is a part of it. At least it speaks to me too; If I hears a story with 2-3 names in it, those names are pretty much blanks in my mind only a few seconds after the story was told. I just usually don’t care for individuals, just what actions happened : “the substance of the interaction” like he said.

That might be the T/F doing a difference, since I have a strong tendency to ignore my feelings.

An other example I could think of is the difference between being lost in toughts, vs feeling in the present, like my example with exercices I told earlier.
( Would that be linked to Observant / Intuitive?
Or maybe Introvert / Extrovert where with one, all that matters is within your own mind ( introvert) and for the other, the inside of the mind is in the background, and we focus on the External world… )

In that example, I suspect someone more in the present would more easilly visualize clear images of objects, while someone lost in toughts might not “see” an image as clearly, but instead think of the concept.

It’s undeniable (to me) that we go from one mindset to an other, and that most people have strong tendencies to fall in X or Y mindsets, but always stay clear ov Mindsets A or B…
I also think these mindsets are not so mythical, that we can explain and detail them if we try, and finally, that they are linked to the Myer Briggs personalities.

I’ll try to think of more effects of different mindsets on memorization on the next days and add them as examples.

I’d also like it if some reader comes up with his own examples :slight_smile:

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I am INTJ (strongly that way in all categories) and i do visualize images, but there also is a “feel” component, especially as it relates to how my images link to eachother: sometimes in recall I remember the link between the images before I have a chance to visualize the image in its loci.

EDIT: I think that Myers-Briggs can be used, especially when people take the time to verify that their test results are accurate, and change a letter or two if they think the test was wrong (or maybe take a few different online tests). Then it can function as a nice starting point to your personality. Obviously there are more than 16 personalities in the world, and I’m sure that Myers-Briggs is not the local optimum for categorizing them, but that doesn’t mean that it isn’t legitimate to draw some (semi)-arbitrary lines so that we can talk about something more granular than individual people. It’s not a perfect system, but I don’t think it’s harmful as long as we use it as a tool and a fun exercise.

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Oh, it’s an interesting point that there is some “feel” attached to memorized images…
I forgot to talk about it, but I found something quite similar in my memorization, both the one helped from Memory Palace and the more “natural” memorization happening through a normal day.

I didn’t see myself as an emotional person for a long time, but last year I realized that I tend to memorize and recall through emotions, or a “feel” more than just logic.

Often, all I recall is that there is some image in a Loci that makes me feel one way or an other, then I think of its relation with the images before and after it, then I’d get the feel of the scene just right, and I would be sure of what was there.

It’s not quite like that, but I’m still not exactly sure of how that works in my mind, so I can’t quite explain it in better words :confused:

Also, When remembering something in a normal day the same thing would occur, but slightly differently:
I’d feel like I should remember something,
The feeling would often link my thoughts to when and where I was when I learned the thing in the first place.
I’d keep focusing on that feeling until I know if the “thing” was important, urgent, funny, complicated, etc. and what it related to, then I’d remember the thing itself…

Well… all that is just to say,
I came to realize my memories are much closer to my feelings than I originally thought…
After all, that’s the whole point of creating vivid, funny or emotionally involved images as mnemonics isn’t it?! xD

Following that tought, and my previous post, where I said I often have a hard time getting in a state of mind where I feel close to my feelings,
then maybe, for people like me, a good warm-up before a memory-intensive exercise would be to do something to get more emotional.

Say, thinking back to fond moments, or difficult ones, of reading parts of a short story we know makes us tear-up, or a specific song…

Plus, since we’re many to test ourselves on speed memorization, it would be rather easy to mesure the impact of this warm-up.

In my case, I know I usually feel quite distant, and that’s how I am when doing memory training, I also have my stats, which usually put me around 40-50 numbers / min.

I could try keeping notes on how I feel before training together with my session’s stats.
I could also try putting myself in an emotional mood before memorizing, and comparing the results.

Well, that’s for the “feeling” part, but as I said, it seems to be the key factor in MY method of memorizing.
I think my last post also offered nice ways to affect the current state-of mind in an other way, with exercises and such.
Doing tests with many methods of affecting your state of mind could give interesting results, if someone were to do it consistently enough…

Also, I, sadly, have not really been training memorization for about a year, so I’m not quite the best test subject…

Still, if someone’s looking for a new way to improve his own memorization techniques, this might be worth a try!
(Especially since trying to get into a certain state of mind isn’t too long of a process, AND it’s usually good for the body and mind anyway (depending what state of mind you’re targeting, lol) , so why not, right?)