i happen to have purchased the (translated) chinese book „classic of the mountains and the seas“, without having a clue how old the content is.
Its basically a bestiary plus geographic descriptions plus mythology, plus etc. Essentially non readable for my western eyes without real connection and understanding of the underlyings.
But just flipping through i could not help myself as seeing this as a massive memory palace.
Has anyone of you had contact with that book through the „memory lense“?
I knew nothing about this book until now, and I must get a copy given what you have said. Thank you! It intersects with many of my interests. I want a copy in Chinese, because I am learning it, and in English so I know what it says.
Does your copy have the Chinese? Can you put a link to your copy here if it is available online? I found a few versions.
I am having lunch with my Chinese mentor tomorrow and will ask if she knows anything about it.
I really didn’t need another rabbit hole, but can’t wait to explore this one! Thank you!
Great - that’s fantastic! From first glance, it does appear to have a memory palace format. I use a combination of a memory palace and bestiary for learning Chinese, so this is intriguing!
I have been made aware that the ancient stories of Roman gods relate to the mountains around Rome. And The Odyssey also follows a trip through locations. Both have been suggested as based on ancient memory palaces - equivalent to the Indigenous ‘Songlines’ I write about.
I have been really keen to compare those two with all my work on Indigenous memory paths which I have found to be universal. You may well have added the Chinese equivalent. The Chinese story is my main focus because it is the only script we can track from the ancient petroglyphs to a written language today.That is why I am learning to read Chinese.
I am an academic and writer and this is my focus, so I am really keen to follow this lead. I have lunch with my Chinese mentor in a few hours time, and she has agreed to discuss this - I don’t know if she is already familiar with it.
I had my lunch and Shufen confirmed this Chinese piece is an ancient classic. She will help me all she can. We looked at the various options and the memory palace format you identified and drew to my attention. I am very excited about this because I am glimpsing a memory palace format in the ancient texts especially from cultures which were the earliest to develop writing.
I now seem to have the same format - exactly the physical memory palace format which underpins all Indigenous knowledge systems (my field of research) - as is perfectly logical. The earliest literature would be adapting that format to the oral tradition and then to the written word.
My texts are now:
Chinese Classic of Mountains and Seas
Greek: Homer’s Odyssey
Ramayana: a journey - India
Popol Vuh - Mayan
Legends of Greece and Rome
I must check The Epic of Gilgamesh, because I think it will fit too.
Having the Chinese equivalent is huge for my ideas given that is the continuum for which I think the best data is available. This is mainly because the ancient memory methods were used right up until the 1950s due to the really low literacy rate. Given how hard I am finding it to learn, I fully understand.
This could be years of work. What have you done!!??!!
If you are happy to share your real name and country, I would appreciate it. PM is fine - but only if you are happy with that. I just want to give credit where credit is due, even though it will take me a long time to evaluate all the ideas which are flooding at the moment.
From a cursory overview, Mountains and Seas appears similar to some european texts like The Wonders of the East: Wonders of the East - Wikipedia
In a similar vein, the Gesta Romanorum contains short stories followed by exegesis (“applications”) explaining how the characters and their actions explain christian doctrine. Although the exegesis seems - at least in some cases - to have been written long after the story, this reinterpretation does remind me of the encoding we use in today’s mnemonics: Gesta Romanorum - Wikipedia
Scans of both can be found online. For those who like Podcasts, here’s The Maniculum Podcast reading and discussing some of the Gesta: Spotify
Love the art! I am working on a new direction trying to create mnemonic art format for contemporary knowledge based on Chinese narrative handscrolls. I am inspired by contemporary and ancient Chinese art. Art and music are critical to Indigenous knowledge systems.
If the world left international relations to us ordinary people, it would be a much happier place.
You have unleashed a tidal wave which has taken over my life.
I now have 50 examples of what I am now calling ‘Epicopedias’ from all over the world. They have a memory palace structure but serve to encode the oral encyclopedia, lots of essential pragmatic information, essential for the survival physically of the culture.
It has become a massive project involving the value of AI. I could not have collected 50 epicopedias checking they demonstrate the 5 criteria I require without AI. I cannot rely on any of the information without human oversight - needing way beyond what I have left of my lifetime. One of the 5 criteria is the memory palace format you mentioned.
I have not been able to find an oral culture which does not have one. I have counter examples from early literate cultures, and no literate culture has an epicopedia.
Two other academics are now involved in the project.
Please don’t ask any more intelligent questions! This one will now take the rest of my life. The Chinese Classic of Mountains and Seas is extraordinary.
