My mistake that should have read mashes nail roof. Probably auto correct kicking in on my phone or more likely just a mistake!!!
Since it is a long string of digits, there are no “single” numbers, but I think you are referring to when 01or 02 comes up and it’s time to begin making an image. In that case, you just read ‘0’ as ‘S’ or ‘Z’ as usual: 020100 may = SaNta SiTting in SauCe, and 000102 may= ZeuS STomping a SNowball.
Edit: or 0002 could be “sizzling snowball.” That’s nice! Guess those digits have never come up for me at the beginning of a loci.
Also, I just did another 15 min N&F and scored 41. So I went from “just awful” to “merely awful.” Haha
Thanks both. Starting to make sense! 
Well done on your N&F DH. May start this myself soon too!
Read in Dominics book that you should somehow link the faces via either someone else you know of the same name or by somehow contorting the name to an object then linking that object to their face!
Yeah, that’s what Ronnie suggests too. I find it extremely difficult, but as a neophyte, I guess I should. Just hope it doesn’t hold me back from the finalist (top 8…) cutoff, a too-real possibility that would make me feel silly for flying to New York before I was ready.
I’m going to need you to rub a Buddha’s belly for me at approximately 10:00 p.m., Huggy.
Edit: new PB speed numbers =139 with easiest recall so far (~2 mins). 8) New method: slapped 140 sloppy digits down in a little over 2 minutes and reviewed through twice more by reading through the numbers. Will try 160 and double-deck w this method.
Edit: my god, I just read your old post about the 1:22 deck, Huggy. Man, that is really astonishing considering the amount of time you put into it and how new you are to this. Just Amazing… I think I overtrain, finding diminishing returns if not detriment.
How realistic-looking are your images these days? In PAO, do you watch the character do the full action? Cleanly? Are the facial expressions apparent as the actions are taking place?
Also check out the Major System page in the wiki if you haven’t seen it yet.
DH, What date is your comp? Will try and find a Buddha for you…failing that, I have a few friends who drink too much and have stomachs reminiscent of a Buddha’s!! 
Thanks DH, I wasn’t sure whether my progression rate was good or bad to be honest, in fact I assumed that it was fairly average and in line with how much other people on this forum seem to progress, but I guess it has been mainly due to the fact that I have not been in any rush to master it. I think that it’s natural to hit a wall from time to time. My next barrier will be the 1 minute, which I know I am not ready for, just yet.
The images vary on the scenario. Sometimes, it is the action that is vivid, whilst other times it can the facial expressions or vocal noise, but they are certainly getting stronger and with fewer blanks. That said, there are still one or two characters that I need to move out, but only once I have found a suitable replacement!
Josh - Thanks, i will check out the Wiki page.
Edit - Also worth noting that when I do my last run on a Friday, I don’t touch it again until Monday morning. I find that the weekend clears my mind and makes it fresh.
Hmm, thanks for the explanation.
The competition is at 8:30 on Saturday. Guess I never stopped to think about whether Europeans live in the “future” or the “past.” Hmm.
My images are still really “fuzzy” almost all of the time, even if I am able to remember them. Strangely, with digits my images are extremely clear, though I have not practiced them nearly as much. I can only assume that since I have been learning sleight of hand with cards for 15 years or so, this is an example of latent inhibition.
All characters are still viewed from a comfortable enough distance that I do not have to imagine their faces. As far as I can tell, I’m just not capable of that. If I were, I would probably be able to pull it off at least on occasion after all this practice. I probably need to do away with people altogether in my card system, even if that just means replacing all of my Persons with animals. After Saturday, I won’t waste time memorizing more cards this same way. Different species have little in common compared to different people, if you cant see the faces. My most vivid P’s are Bowser, Porky pig (which eventually just became a realistic-looking pig since that is easier for me), Scooby, Tin man, Raichu (Pokemon) and King Kong. To facilitate better imagery, I have begun using two objects for many of my characters. One is roughly staff-shaped, and one has greater depth. It’s easier for me to imagine someone smashing something like a treestump with a sledglehammer, rather than a broom with a sledgehammer.
Just some words of wisdom here, gleaned from my own folly: I haven’t been timing my deck reconstruction at all, thinking 5:00 was ample time since I don’t put the deck in straight order before reconstruction, (plus, they give you a full 5:00 to memorize it, which took me all of two weeks to learn how to dol), but it just took me 5:15 to reconstruct a deck I spent 1:17 memorizing (about an extra second from max speed) (per loci to make sure they really stuck). I had two P’s that I wasn’t sure about (would have taken me about 10 seconds to really convince myself) and in the rush put them in the wrong places! I did run backward through the deck after memorization though, to really drill them in, but it looks like that is not an option (unless it takes them ~30 seconds to hand me the deck).
So if you guys don’t practice timing this aspect, you had better start doing so!
And Huggy, what went over your head the other day was a convoluted explanation of the simple fact that you get 0 points for a line with any error, so if just ONE of your images contains the last digits of one line and the first digits of the next line, you risk losing points for two lines (40 points per line in the WMC!) by forgetting just one image.
Edit: just did it again - looks like because I mentally review to check if the deck was perfectly memorized, I have become dependent upon this crutch…the horror!
Edit: actually, recall begins after the 5 minute memorization period is complete! So I’ll practice lining up my characters so I can quickly go through and light them on fire, to leave any cards I can’t recall at first intact.
Hello Double Helix,
I read one of your earliest post on the thread where you had written about memorising 16 cards in 45 seconds and adding 4 more and then you would try to get the same time and then so on upto 52. I really liked that idea and wanted to know if ths is how yougot to your present time? I would be using the 52 images/ 52 loci method. Everything is set and i am about to start practice. I would like to go with your approach but i would want to know your experience.
No, that isn’t how I progressed, but I am flattered that you would ask me for specific advice. Here is what I recommend you do to progress quickly with that method - imagine for a minute how easy it would be if instead of cards, you were memorizing these same images, but you were allowed to read the words instead - it would be nothing as difficult as 52 random words - hell, pretty soon you’d be picturing the image just based on noticing the length of the word, or the way that “watermelon” has two tall letters. Now imagine that instead of words, you had them in a list of pictures - THAT would be as easy as 52/52 could possibly get, even in theory - your own chosen words right there in pictures for you. But what if, instead of photographs, they were cartoons? Or instead of cartoons, pencil drawings? Or better yet, abstract representations that were still vaguely recognizable (and remember, you would have all the time in the world to learn the pictures). You see I am suggesting that the card numbers/suits can be these very things - to the trained eye. No “reading” the images, just “seeing”, like a picture. Of course I’m not suggesting that you shouldn’t have any fun memorizing right now. It’s practice, so why not? But grab a deck and let me show you some of mine. Take a hard look at the two of spades - my Einstein. Do you see how the bottom of the two and the spade make a side - profile of a man with a bushy moustache? If you don’t, keep looking: because they do. Take a look at the ten of hearts - Scooby Doo. Do you see how he is looking straight at you? Heart for a nose, and big, tall, (one is weird looking) startled eyes? He is! Last one: 5 of spades is a toilet. Do you see how the number “5” is an arial view of a toilet? The tank and the seat? Those are abstract pictures. First thing - and if you don’t trust me on this then try without it first and then ‘see’ the pictures and notice the improvement - is to go through the deck and look into the numbers to see your pictures. Doesn’t matter if you can’t do it with every card, but take 30 seconds with each one and try your best. Think about angles. The ones you can see pictures for will probably become your fastest to recognize very soon. Get back online and let me know if I’m wrong or right about that. But I think I’m right, and it sure works for me :).
As far as the number of loci to use, I think the path I took was not the right one, I was too ambitious (a euphemism for ‘impatient’). You can learn to succeed, in a way, by constantly succeeding. Set your goal for your number of loci low enough to succeed almost all of the time. You’re not going to break any records for now, so why start timing it immediately? That’s just extra pressure that can make you feel like you’re not getting any better, when in fact you are. Feel free to disagree with me especially on that point. But with 52/52, there’s a good chance that someone could waste a lot of practice time biting off more (loci) than they can chew. I am repeatedly, regrettably, guilty of this, and it isn’t good. I would see how far you can memorize pretty consistently without reviewing. When you have identified that number, stretch it by say, 2-5 loci the NEXT day every time you master that amount. For your practice in a single day, just keep succeeding at what you can do, so once your mind has had time to consolidate that memory/skill during sleep, you’ll be prepared enough to just fail by a little bit the next day, which any research worth it’s weight will tell you is ideal for improvement. Always make sure you are attempted to succeed a hair beyond your skill level. After you can do enough cards where you think the amount of loci determines your time more than just luckily getting the easy cards ten times in a row, that might be a good time to start timing yourself, just if you want to. But if you do, just remember that, at least in my opinion, stretching the number of loci you can do is far more important than your time, since you have SO many loci to use (not that thT’s a bad thing!) Once you can do all 52 cards with no review, no matter the speed, you will have learned to make detailed images. Then you can push the speed against your own times.
I think if you follow these tips, at least all of them that you don’t genuinely believe are bad ideas, you will have a very strong start that will help you really get going. But these tips (except for seeing the object in the design) are just for that - to give you a strong start. If you disregard my tips because they don’t seem useful and aren’t really helping, that’s probably a good thing. If if you disregard my tips because it strains your brain a little too much for comfort, then you are giving up on a very good thing. Brain strain is like muscle strain, it’s a very good thing. But if you have any more questions about muscles, ask Huggy, not me.
So no, this is not the path I’ve taken, but what I have learned along the way strongly suggests to me that this is a better path than mine. I hope you find the advice helpful, and once you feel like you could use a little more advice, I will certainly be here and more than happy to do my best to help.
Good luck and have fun!
Lance
1 Like
Thanks! That was a great advice. I have always thought about converting items into images that have some attribute which is inherent to the nature of the item. You gave me some cool ideas to experiment upon. I would definitely like to directly convert them to images, rather first think the peg and then visualise it. I would be modifying my system a bit by introducing abstract images and then take trials. Right now i have vector algebra problems to do. So i would be trying after 7-8 hrs.
As i mentioned i had thought in similar lines. Let me tell that. I had thought a bit more complex system for binary
digits. The idea is to see the binary digits in terms of LOGIC GATES. For example i have to memorise 001 using logic gates. I would see it as a NAND gate or a NOR gate. For either for inputs as 0 & 0, the output is 1. Now the symbol of Nand gate looks like a chef’s hat and that of Nor gate looks like a frisbee. I have not experimented much with the idea. I never regardes this as a capable tool but now it seems i have to start reconsidering it…
Thanks again! You gave some really good points to ponder on.
With regards,
Sourav
Hi,
I’ve manaqged to get my time down to 5.30 but I am having trouble with some of the images. I might look into changing some of my associations. Also I have trouble remembering the image pairs at my first 3 loci and also at one or two other places.
I’ve been practising just running through the cards to strengthen my associations but this takes me about 2 minutes to do.
Any tips would be appreciated.
thanks.
Sea.
Hi Sea,
What system are you using again? Are you just using PA or PAO?
Something I find helps is rather than just inserting the PA/PAO into your loci and moving on to the next, try incorporating the loci or something from within the loci into your image.
For example, the first loci on one of my Journeys is a train platform (As I step off of the train), so rather than just plonk my scenario of say, Hulk throwing a hammer at a Jelly, it will become Hulk throwing a hammer at the my train, which is made of Jelly! The hammer then bounces back and smashes Hulk through the barriers.
It might take longer to start, but this soon becomes second nature and certainly strengthens the connection.
Thanks huggy I’ll try that. I am using person object if that makes any sense
Regards
Sea
Thanks huggy I’ll try that. I am using person object if that makes any sense
Regards
Sea
That is an excellent way to do it. I hadn’t though of practicing PAO in such an interactive way - sounds tough to do quickly, making totally novel connections each time…
Well, I just paid closer attention to how the scoring is done for the competition, and given that one scores almost the same amount of points for a 1:00 deck as a 3:00 deck, I see my work on cards will do little to increase my scores, and all along I was banking on that being my single advantage. Then, Nelson’s digits blow everyone else away, so there are less points to be earned on digits based on the curve he sets - since all competitors will score low relative to Nelson, the gap of 40 or 50 digits will also amount to only a few points. Nelson is weakest at N&F and poetry (but very good at them!), which means that that is where the most points are likely to be earned, since other than with cards,
Points are earned as a percentage of the top score. So with my Ace in the Hole taken Away, and my currently weakest events being the most important, I have really lost confidence in being able to move forward this year. Not to sound like such a baby, but waiting an entire year for a second try is not appealing. But it’s still possible.
DH,
I think that you should just go into this with the attitude that anything better than last position will be a result. Don’t put yourself under too much pressure and try to just enjoy the experience.
Remember that you are of a minority to have ever entered such a specialised competition and you will be able to put claim to that regardless of where you are placed at the end.
Less expectation > Less pressure > More relaxed > Better result > More enjoyable experience.
Look forward to hearing all about it.
Yes, of course you’re right. I’ve put such an insane amount of time into this that I tell myself I’ve been “working so hard on it,” but it isn’t really like that. I enjoy it. I guess I just want the experience of participating in the events so when I come back as a serious competitor, I will feel more comfortable with all of it. But you’re right, there’s no need to be so competitive, but I’ve always been like this. Taking competition very seriously - but if it doesn’t pan out how I would prefer, I never actually get upset about it. Yeah, I should chill.
You will be fine!
Guys,
A quick query regarding the Major system (Which I am now getting quite used to, by the way ).
I have my images for 000-999 (Jumped in at the deep end).
When decoding a word that contains more letters than you potentially need, do you just take the first 2/3 (however many you are working with) in order?
So, for example if I decode number 824, it becomes FNR > Funeral
However, this word could also be used for FNRL > 8245, or maybe even mistaken for FNL, which translates to 825 (Although I would use Funnel for this number).
I assume therefore, that to stop yourself using the L and ensure that you use the correct letter R, you just have to make sure you take the letters in order and then disregard anything that might follow, right?
Hope I’m making sense! 
Hi Lance,
I finally experimented with your idea and it makes sense to me. 2 of spades looks like einstein and 10 of hearts like scooby doo, i completely agree with you. I looked at ace of spades as eiffel tower set on fire. I am going to modify my system and set some rules to make it a bit more systematic.
I also wont be touching the timer until the whole system gets embedded in my head. I dont want to put myself under unnecessary pressure, only to add frustration and then get bored with it. i would go slow and steady by making marginal improvements everyday.
Now i feel this is a more organised approach towards the task. Thanks!
All the best for USAMC! Don’t worry about anything, all will be fine
Sourav