I too am relatively new to cards (started in Nov/Dec 12) and in that time have brought my time down from 14 mins to 1:22, (POA system, 17 loci) so it can be done relatively quickly with the right application.
Wish the same could be said for my 0-99 PAO Dominic system which I am still struggling to find some associations for.
I have some advice for you, and this is new advice for everyone here:
I just went through my clubs one by one (card in hand) and googled each character, and looking at images, resolved to note three features of that character preferably that I never noticed, but at least that I never picture while memorizing. King Kong is my MOST vivid, and yet I never think about his “foot thumbs” being off to the side, his forearms being CONSIDERABLY larger than his biceps/triceps, or his nose looking like two big holes. “Big black ape” has been enough so far. Did you know that every part of the tin man is silver - except for his eyebrows? That there are bolts “buttoning down” his too-large, perfectly cylindrical torso, or that his shoulders have three overlapping layers of metal?
I pictured each character doing his/her action until I could do so while simultaneously visualizing each of these features while in a loci. It takes 100% attention and is not easy - though it IS relatively quick. After the whole suit is done, mentally review each of the three qualities, just to make sure you remember. I can tell already that it is going to be immensely helpful.
My other advice for Sea is to go through the deck - (great, you have 52 loci in a row!) - and one card at a time, picture each character doing his or her own action vividly. Eventually time yourself - without rushing (make sure the images are vivid) - and watch as your time improves. Practicing this reduces the amount of time it takes you to see a card as JUST an ACTION or OBJECT. You know it as a whole. I was too impatient to practice this at first - a shame. These times are pretty impressive, huh? Everyone here is succeeding! Stick with it every day and you’ll get under two minutes faster than you think. It’s going to be recognizing what the cards mean that will slow you down for a while, which is why I recommended the exercise. Remembering 17 words in 2 minutes is a cinch, and this really shouldn’t be much harder when the cards start conjuring images quickly (like a word).
Huggy, you’re still putting together the 00-99? If you just ditched the system at this point it would be easy to remember the non-systematic words because each time you see those numbers they’ll stand out like a sore thumb and you’ll think "oh yeah, 96, that one took me forever so I decided to just ditch the system and make it ‘x’. I know because That’s how I feel about the tricky ones that I eventually abandoned Major system for, and in general it makes them even easier to recognize. And with flash cards it’s just like learning 20 new vocabulary words. Memorizing digits also improves your memory skill all around, and being so good at cards already you’re starting out a step ahead. Sorry Im being so officious, I just know you’ll really enjoy the new challenge.
By the way, concerning digits, I ditched the PAO for them. It’s just way too hard and way too slow (maybe just because I haven’t used it much). Instead, I have MULTIPLE stock objects, adjectives, verbs, and on occasion I use the people, and I use them interchangeably to make the most logical story I can, using the loci to hold as many digits as makes sense, and making frequent use of the space between the loci. I recently hit the 60 digits/minute mark and plan on making this into a 3 digit system after the competition. Don’t know if other people will like it, but today I experimented with just linking a story together without using loci, just remembering the story, and did almost as well.
DH - Nice advice regarding the three features. I will be sure to do this!
Edit - Thanks DH. The thing is, I only have initials for the incomplete ones at present. I have not spent enough time converting them to numbers as yet, so EA doesn’t reflect the number (51) unless I think about, I just see EA, until I can make that association.
As i am not too deeply into this as yet, I am considering using a different method. Once which is easier to pick up and run with is preferable!
I use the major system for pegs 1-100 and it was pretty quick to learn. However, for memorising strings of numbers base 10 or binary I generally use the major system and generate words on the fly. I find that faster than using my predefined pegs. I also just use the link method as oppossed to loci,
Well I think major system is pretty darn easy because when you sound out the numbers you are very nearly saying the word. Take 42: r,n. you see the number and very quickly say “Rrnn” which sounds an awful lot like Ernie, runs, AND urn. Ronnie had this to say about learning the major system - it worked like a charm to two friends and me.
Paraphrased, you commit parts of your body to memory like loci. He calls this the “Skeleton file” and it actually is very useful for short lists.
From top down
0-sky
1-top (top of head)
2-nose
3-mouth
4-ribs
5-liver (stomach basically)
6-joint (hip joint) (hips, waist)
7-cap (kneecap)
8-fibula (shin)
9-ball (of foot)
Representing phonetically:
1:suh, zuh
2:nuh
3:muh
4:urr
5:L (English has many pronunciations of L, I noticed - “little” contains two very different ones.
6: juh,shuh,chuh
7:kuh,guh
8:fuh,vuh
9:puh,buh
Commit the loci to memory and you have a very easy reference from which you can access the sounds. It quickly becomes automatic, and if you want something “easy to pick up and run with,” this is it - you can come up with your terms by jumping right in and memorizing a string of digits, just use whatever comes to mind first! Even just making nouns lets you get going pretty fast, just like Feng getting 500 in five minutes dropping 4 digits/loci. Some of mine wound up boring, like mat or file, but since they were created naturally, the speed at which I recognize them makes up for it.
Wow, we posted in the same minute and said exactly the same thing. :). I used to make them up on the fly then started writing down all the new words that would pop up. That’s why/how I have a bank of so many. Even now, new ones keep appearing.
Can you explain just how you use the “link method” specifically?
Basically if I want to memorise a string of numbers lets say 3602548
I use the major system and would come up with the following words mashed nail roof
then I use the link system as follows:
I picture mashing a nail and then I picture pushing a big nail into my roof. Actually for the number above I would just picture pushing a nail into my shed roof using a potato masher but you get the idea. I guess it is kind of like a story it just does not make a whole lot of sense. But it is really really easy to remember.
I know I’m veering off topic but I do the same thing for binary numbers using the major system for 3 digit binary groups
000 = t/d
001 = n
010 = m
100 = r
101 = L
110 = sh/ch/j (soft)
011 = k/c (harsh)
111= f/v
1=p/b
0=s
Sounds interesting, I will have to look into this Major system a bit more I think!
So let me get this right, you link a story together using words which represent the numbers rather than inserting PAO into loci as with the Dominic system?
Thats how I use the major system for binary.
For normal numbers I use the following convention
0 s
1 t or d
2 n
3 m
4 r
5 l
6 sh or ch or j
7 c or k or g
8 is f or v
9 is p or b
So when making words you can add any letters not on the list above as they are disregarded when converting back from words to numbers.
To answer your question, you are right I don’t use the dominic system for series of numbers. For longer strings I do sometimes use loci with the major system
I just put it in a post above. Unless you specifically meant binary.
Edit: oh, I suppose you were. I wouldn’t use major for binary personally, since each extra digit is a power of two so with just 28 extra images you could use 7 digits per image instead of six, or with 1024 images you could use ten, or is you wanted to fit 9 digits per loci you would only need 512 images instead of 1000. So to "link, you use each image twice? Sounds memorable but a little inefficient. Combined with a memory palace it seems like it would be extremely
Powerful.
Thanks DH, but I guess what I meant is how each sound/word translates to the corresponding numbers as I don’t see how you are supposed to make the correlation? For example, how do you get 1 from - 1:suh, zuh and 9 from - 9:puh,buh??
Not sure this would be the best way forward for me if I don’t understand the basics. Think I should read up on it a bit more…
Well, you use the top, nose, mouth thing, taking the first letter, as training wheels to learn the system. But using it, you could have something like:
I use the system a little stricter where every instance of a letter in my words refers to a number in the sequence. E.g. 874036261 could be FaKe oaRS MaCHiNe SHoT. I would then make that into an image or little video in my mind and I have no problem remembering.
You can use any amount of digits at a time, whatever amount gives you a word as quickly as possible
Although I am still bemused by how you guys know where to make the breaks.
Let’s take DH’s example…
4547858491 = a RoLling RoCK FLattens a FuRry BaT
When deciphering, how would you know to use ‘45’ for the first word when the word RoLLing has two L’'s in it? In other words, what is to stop you from coding this as ‘455’? This is why I was curious as to whether you need to stick to 2, 3 or 4 numbers per word, rather than a variation of all to avoid this kind of mistake.
One of my adjectives is “fiery” (84) which basically means engulfed in flames. I NEVER use 3 digits in a single image, though I may use 4 or 6 or 8 or 10 in “compound” images, as in the example I gave you, stringing together adjectives nouns verbs and persons. Obviously I can tell if it’s a 2-digit or 4-digit noun if, for example, a watermelon is engulfed in flames, or made of chrome, wood, or if it has wings. Very easy to differentiate. But when I make a 000-999 (I’m hoping to pull this off in the last two weeks of March), I will stick to combinations that hold either 5 or 10 digits, since the American competition has 20 digits per line and the world competition has forty (if, heaven forbid, Nelson falls off a cliff or freezes to death, I could potentially enter the world comp within a few years). That’s the other reason I don’t like PAO - you land on the 18th (6 dig per loci x 3 loci), then 16th, then finally the 14th, (the next 6 will add to an even 20). That means that the majority of the time, if you miss the “fourth loci in a series”, you get zero points for TWO lines.
Nelson was using a 7 Digit PAO last year, and he scored a 303, though he committed 343 to memory (remarkable!) (with a few errors). Now he uses an 8 digit system, which is a bit safer. There is a high probability (a little under 30%) that he only missed a single loci, and lost 40 points. Which would be terribly unfortunate. Maybe he’ll start using 10000 people with 10,000 objects. That would be practical :). For 10,000 objects, you would have to have “my bike, Tom’s bike, Janice’s bike, Janice’s bike painted red, Janice’s bike missing two spokes and one pedal…”
Go over the "top, nose, mouth, thing like 3 times a day, and it’ll become natural quickly.