Card deck memorisation - post your times here!

Thanks for your input, DH. It’s sounds like fun to break the rules in that way. I will definitely try that out! Right now I’m not that motivated to do speed cards often, but it will come back to me, I’m sure of that. First decks today since thursday; a few around 2:30, then 2:11 without errors, and 1:56 where I switched two P’s - dammit!

I’ve just finished my 00-99 PAO and gonna spend some time practising it… I would like to master the skill where you can connect weekdays with calendar dates fast. Like described by Dominic O’Brien in one of his books. Have any of you guys tried working on that?

ichathu,

As DH sayd it’s hard to recall when memo takes over 10 minutes. Try to use less time connecting the image to the locus It might feel like it will not stick as good as before where you used more time on this, but if you are done with the memorization in half the time, the recall is so much easier since it’s not that long ago since you memorized the first cards!

Vonde,

I too want to get my backside into gear with regards to the 00-99 PAO!!

I have started it and only have about a dozen or so associations left to make, but as I am using the Dominic system, it is proving rather difficult to find initials for the last remaining numbers like, 14 (AD), 25 (BE), 75 (GE), etc!! Once I have them all, I can start putting it into practice…

New times:-

Perfect recall - 1:57 (Old 2:12) Broke the two minutes…YES!! :slight_smile:
With errors - 1:45 (Old 1:57)

I did some 18 card memos today. I made sure to go through the cards at a consistent (though slow) pace. My times were 1:04 and 1:05; pretty happy. Both had perfect recall. I’m going to keep doing this some later, hopefully I can get under a minute sometime today or tomorrow.

Awesome news on your improvements. Ickathu -
wow! Sounds like that method really works for you at this point.

And the 2 minute barrier, Huggy, Yessss! Welcome to the Big Leagues! Haha. have personally been working on PA and 52/52, as well as slow decks like Huggy does sometimes. I’m already pretty fast at recognizing
Cards, so now I want to be GOOD at it - consistent recall and detailed images. The time will begin to drop again slowly as I get better. My PA is pretty fast too now, I usually hit the clock at about 1:20, but haven’t had perfect recall. Same with 52/52, which is a lot of fun.

But to be more specific about my future training with cards - will be setting clear goals - specific speeds within with perfect recall - recall so clear that putting together a second deck would be a waste of time so to just go back through the deck to check. Every time I can complete a goal five times on a row, I will decrease the target time by just a few seconds. This is how I have been successful with musical instruments.

A starting goal for me will be 2 decks in five minutes, then after five straight successes, 4:50, then 4:40, so that it shouldn’t really feel like I’m straining myself time-wise, just constantly focusing on sharpening skill.

By the way I did just try 2 decks in 5 minutes (using the entire time, but not reviewing until the end) and recalled them, though 2 loci were blank and 2 were incomplete and I couldn’t reconstruct them totally until process of elimination was involved. Still, that’s legal in competition, and there is a five-minute, 2-deck event in the U.S. memo champ, so I count this as a huge victory. :slight_smile:

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18 cards in 42.65. I had a bit of trouble with 2 of the cards. One of them I got after just a minute or two of thinking, but the other one, I think I was going through too fast near the end to actually form an image. This was on my last set of 3 cards. I had my P - a nazgul - and my O - a TV remote - but my action was sprinkling. Nowhere in my mind do I have an image of a nazgul sprinkling a bucketful of remotes around, so I think I was just going a bit to quick near the end. Still, a lot better than my previous ones of 1:04 and 1:05.

Oh, when we do card memorization (18 and 52 cards) how long are we supposed to wait after we stop the timer before we try to recite the cards or organize another deck to match, if that makes sense? I usually just wait a few seconds, open another deck, and start immediately, but I feel like maybe you have to wait a certain amount of time for the images to “fade” so you have to actually remember.
Does that make sense?

Actually, the best use of your time after memorizing a deck is immediate review. If you already forgot a locus, you may remember it later, or maybe not, but if you review immediately, the ones you remember on that first review will stay there permanently, if you were to keep reviewing them. I usually review once, but together 9 or 12 cards, review again super quick, another 20 or so cards, quick review of the few that are left then finish. In the competitions, I think there’s a minute break. But it could be 1 minute or 20 minutes - it makes no difference if you spend the time reviewing. 42 seconds is extremely fast - what is your target time to hit before adding on a few more cards?

Very slight improvement…just 1 second!! In fact hardly worth reporting, but the important thing about this time is that the recall took just 1:30 seconds. :slight_smile:

Perfect recall - 1:56 (Old 1:57)
With errors - 1:45 (Old 1:57)

Okay, I’ll start doing a quick review right away after I stop the timer, then go straight into the “reorganization”.
I’m going to wait until I get consistently sub50 (I think my 42 was lucky - my next 2 were 57 and 1:01), then go up to 24 cards. When I can get that under 1:10 or so I’ll add 6 more cards, and so on. I think I’ll see if I can get to consistent sub50s later today.

Also, my system has no organization. I know that lots of people categorize and group their cards, like saying the hearts are likeable people, clubs are mean, etc, then stuff like K/Q are royalty and leaders, J are comedians, and so on. My cards are randomly assigned, but I know them all now pretty well. Is there any point in changing my cards so that it makes more sense? Like maybe use the set of characters in the $10k card challenge on memrise would be better, since the associations are more logical, and probably easier to remember and possibly faster to memorize. The only reason I’m hesitant is because I already know what most of my cards are off the top of my head, so is there going to be any point in switching?

Ickathu - way to be methodical and consistent in planning how to practice. i envy that self control and believe you will benefit hugely from it.
The ONLY function of Dominic or major system is to have something to fall back on when you can’t remember the card. Perfect association between the card and the image is the goal. It is easier to achieve with a system for most people, but you have succeeded in spite of not having that crutch. There may be good reasons to change some of your cards in the future, but that isn’t one :slight_smile:

Practice with immediate feedback is most effective, as a rule. Playing a song “ten times in a row, no matter what” is less effective than practicing until you can play it perfectly once or twice. Just going through the motions provides no feedback, so there is no guarantee that you will actually improve in a reasonable timespan. There is no specific goal that guarantees/requires improvement.

I fear that memorizing deck after deck is a variation of this form of bad
Practice. It’s not enough to say “I’m going to keep trying to do it faster.” That’s like saying “I’m going to score more
Points in this next basketball game”. It is a deceptively inane statement, and practicing shot after shot until they are perfect, practicing those shots scrom places he is less successful, is how he would REALLY improve his shooting effectively.

Can we brainstorm a few ideas to make practice more focused, and with direct feedback? I’ll start:

With a metronome, going relatively slowly, spread one card at a time. With the method of your choice, commit these to memory. When the deck is done, put the front card on the back of the deck and continue. To as far as you can without having to spend extra time on any given card. Speed up if it is too easy. try to break your high score. This helps with recognition speed, but not memory.

Memorize three decks in a row (with breaks in between) successfully. If you can’t recall a loci, go back to start. This works on memory, but not speed per se.

Memorize an entire deck, visualizing each new image WITHOUT letting the image of the previous loci leave your mind’s eye. This will be damn slow at first, you probably won’t even be able to do it once out of your first 16 tries, but I fear the man who masters this skill it’s functionally equivalent to spending twice as long visualizing each loci, and builds stronger associations betweenoci for easier recall. Don’t move on until you cleat see both loci at once, and mark your times for this exercise.

Using. Multiple decks, see how many loci you can fill up, without review, with perfect recall. Quit when you think you have reached your limit. Try to beat your top score.

Notice that each of these exercises has a very specific function. That is good for practice.

Well, I’m all out of ideas for now. Please contribute if you can think of anything.

Edit: Force yourself through a deck at high speed. Review and see how many you can remember. Deal the
Cards down in three piles of three cards each after removing the back card. Reassemble them so the image are the same but in a different order. Change palaces and do it again. Spread in groups of three rather than letting just the first card trigger the image. That helps you identify and master combinations of cards that may be tricky.

/protip:

If you spread in groups of three, notice when there are two of the same card, if they are all the same suit, or if they are all face cards. Your rote memory may save you.

Edit: just did some speed numbers for the first time in weeks, in three 2-minute trials, I got 56 then 62 then 68 digits with really clear recall, so I should probably go even faster. Last time I did numbers, 80 digits in 5 minutes was a “good score.” Just tried again , 50 (48) in one minute (2 errors)
I’m bringing this up because the last time I did digits, my cards had improved a lot in the 24 hours that I spent on just digits. Perhaps alternating them is the key? Has anyone systematically alternated between cards and digits?

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Thought of more practice ideas. Really haven’t improved in about 3 weeks, so I know my practice is wrong. I went back through some of ericsson’s articles and really picked up on the importance of something I may have glossed over just a bit. A virtuoso doesn’t practice more than 4 hours a day. Real improvement should not even take this long. The reason why is that solid, deliberate practice is so intellectually consuming that doing it for four hours in a single day with focus is nearly impossible. I always practice way more than that, but memorizing ddecks isn’t really that exhausting, so it isn’t the way to go for me.
I just mentally went through all the cards in the deck and lined them up in the street, each person doing his own action. I included loads of detail and lots of interaction, going back and forth and seeing as many of them next to each other simultaneously as I could. It took about 15 minutes and the strain nearly killed me. So I know it was good practice. I’m now going to practice memorizing a couple decks by a,2,3 4,5,6. 7,8,9. 10,j,q. Etc. by suit, all in my head. It’ll be so exhausting, this too must be great practice. I expect to see some improvement again soon by practicing these things that I fear practicing because they will be so hard…

Edit: I’m improving today!’ I know exactly what worked, I’ll get on and post it once I start slowing down!!
Edit : 26 cards in 0:29. I consider that a PB and will probably play “keep the pace” adding three cards for each success.

Ok in short, I have recently been doing a lot of 52 images/52 with a metronome a little faster than I can handle, so that I could get used to seeing each card as one - the P A and O, and more importantly, because I often forget who the P is when doing PAO, I have been developing the skill of firmly placing each new P in his place as soon as the new card is flipped. 2 days ago, I experimented for about 90 minutes with spreading 3 at a time, staring at the A card, and dropping the P and O in the loci from my peripheral vision. It was such a new skill that I improved a lot in just an hour. Well yesterday I was trying to put them together by spreading through the P card, immediately to the AO, on the FAITH that I could drop the character into the loci as the card is spread. But the first card I subvocalize is the action card. This makes the PA fall into place very quickly and cleanly, then I have time to drop the O in. The timing has to be just right - just get a glimpse of the P card first, and drop the char into the loci as you REALLY begin to focus on the AO. It’s hard to describe, advanced and knacky technique that may not be to everyone’s liking but I’ll answer your questions if you have any because this is totally new to me and the first time Im seeing real, consistent progress in a good while. The trick is to spread the cards ALMOST immediately and read the A, while trying to get your mind to automatically recognize the P that it saw for a fraction of a second.

Dropping the images in at about 50 seconds, sometimes less!. But a lot of them aren’t sticking at this speed, and I don’t know why. Sorry I’ll keep the posts brief.

Just came very close to smashing my score (1:56) by 20 seconds!!
1:36 - 1 error!!.. Dam it!!.. :confused:

I’ve been having trouble getting my speed down lately but part of the reason is that I just haven’t been training at all. It was my birthday and such and things just got piled up.

Anyway, I have been practising for a day or two and it’s not a lot (not even 45 minutes a day) but you know, it’s something.

I clocked under 1 minute 2 times now but I’m not even trying to get ALL of the cards right because I am only going to try that when I’m at around 40 seconds.

That’s all I have to say for today.

Hi Wessells,

I don’t think that is necessarily a bad thing!

The brain is a lot like the body. When it is worked, it needs recovery time, regardless of whether you think it does or not.

I only practice twice a day for 20 mins, so 40 mins per day. Also this is only Mon-Fri. I don’t do anything at the weekends, and my times are still falling.

I am getting sub 2 minutes (by some distance) every time now, and as was the case when I was at the 3 min barrier, I keep getting one or two errors to stop me hitting a 1:30 - 1:40 time. My best remains at 1:56, but I know I will beat that by some way shortly. Had a 1:42 this morning, but with 2 errors which was slighly annoying as the recall was great and I was sure I had done it!

Nevermind. Hopefully beat my goal of the 1 minute mark with perfect recall by the end of March… :slight_smile:

New times:-

Perfect recall - 1:43 (Old 1:56)
With errors - 1:29 (Old 1:45)

Timed myself the first time today just a moment ago, 0:57.5 - but I switched two of my P’s.

+1 for brain rest. I’m making more progress the less I do. It hurts to stop practicing, but I can see how much it really does help, so I’ve been practicing poetry a lot recently. Wish I knew what the poems were like in competition - I have no gauge by which I can select the poems to practice. So I’ve just been practicing impossibly long ones for now. Maybe these forums have examples somewhere…

Hi Guys,

I joined this forum today and start here posting my PB in training: 25,25s.

Looking forward to read through this forum.

Best,
Hannes

Hi Hannes,

Welcome.

Keep us updated with your progress. :slight_smile:

Hannes as in JO-hannes? And Johannes as in Mallow?

If so, welcome. If not, welcome. :slight_smile:

25,25? That’s great! What system do you use?

I’m changing Ben Franklin to Garfield and Steve Irwin to Odie. I think I’ve felt for a while that it would be better this way but didn’t want to relearn. Increased speed is giving me confidence to try new things.

@Nelson : Yes this Johannes :wink:

I use a Double-Card System with consonants. But only with 1352 images instead of 2704. I was always too lazy to create a real big system so I use that trick:

Every image works for two different card combinations. So for example Kd-8c has the same image as Ks-8c. This gives you two blocks of 1352 combinations.

If I memorize cards I put images on one location and make up a story as long as combinations from block 1 appear. If a combination from block 2 appears I put it on the actual location but then move to the next one and start again with process. So I have a different number of images on each location

This gives me all information I need.