Hi,
I’ve just started my journey with memory techniques and I decided to go with words, I am getting stuck at 18 words in 60 sec. I group words in pairs of 2 in places, in my memory palace but trying to imagine representations of words seems to take too much time and cant get past memorizing even 12 words, any tips on this? Maybe change technique?
Regards
Try the technique on the forum “how to become a walking encyclopaedia”
use the repetition… @dago093… and try slowly
I disagree with both.
The so-called “walking encyclopedia” technique (if it did actually work at all) would not be usable for speed events at all (and the jury is out if it is even practical, realistic, or even understandable as it has currently been “presented.”)
I definitely don’t recommend slowing down or using repetition within attempts if the goal is to increase speed. Practice at a speed that is just a little faster than you can currently achieve. Your brain will catch up. Similarly, practice going straight through without backtracking to review mid-attempt. Trust your brain to do its job and recall your scenes. It won’t be 100% accurate at first. Thats ok. You’re TRAINING your brain to generate memorable scenes quickly. It will take time and effort. If you keep falling back on the crutch of repetition you won’t actually be pushing your brain to improve.
Random words can be tricky because you usually don’t have pre-defined images for everything like you would in numbers or cards so you have to try to translate sometimes abstract new words into images and do it at speed. The upside is that its a very good exercise in practicing your creative quick thinking.
One strategy you could try is to take @katiek’s approach of integrating pre-defined people at every loci and having them embody or perform some of the more abstract words. That way instead of having to figure out an image for something like “distraught” you would have the person who lives at your loci acting distraught. If you take some time to build a few memory palace journeys with the amount of loci you need to reach whatever level you’re setting your sights on and then figure out a good set of people to inhabit those loci, you might find it easier to visualize some of the trickier non-noun words.
Or, you could try random images training. This provides you with all kinds of pictures in sequence that you have to memorize and then place back in the correct order. It may help you self-evaluate how you set your focus and how you generate links between two unrelated things. Its usually a little bit easier than words so it may be a better starting point, at least from a confidence building standpoint.
However you decide to proceed, remember, you’re honing a new skill. It will take time and effort. Just like learning to play an instrument or shoot a ball. Keep at it consistently and you’ll see results!
@TheHumanTim - I’m training for the championship… since 2021 I managed to “hack my brain” by seeing an app saying that memory athletes generally use repetition… I spent years trying, but there came a time when I reached almost more than 99% use… then I was thinking… last year I used the Katiemethod for a month… my average was 18 words in 5 minutes with repetition, it’s with the Katie Method, without repetition, 20 in 5 minutes… but not with more than 99% repetition … so I gave up on the Katie method without repetition and went back to the one with repetition… when you create a paradoxical story you also spend time creating a story and repeating almost the same thing… I’m happy that I was able to memorize it with cool precision… and the difference is 10% slower than without repetition… I’m thinking about working on speed or the top athletes managed to be fast with other techniques, I continue here with my journey repeating, but always thinking about a faster way like the top memory athletes who do more 100 words in 5 minutes… @TheHumanTim
When beginning, first interacts with 2nd word. Don’t overthink it.
Wall- suspicious
A wall falls onto a shady character. Then onto next loci.
If it’s suspsicious wall.
Shady character inspects the wall or the wall has a bunch of cracks.
Eventually you’ll be able to rapidly do this.
Yes… seems with my… but for me only get with the repetition with discipline with 5 minutes, with disciplines with more that 10 minutes i review two times… @Bigdonnyv @TheHumanTim
@AndersonAraujoBrasil It seems like you’re really really stuck on this idea of mid-attempt repetition and review for some reason. You bring it up in almost every one of your posts. I’d really suggest that you don’t do this. Mid-attempt review and repetition is likely going to keep holding you back until you eliminate it.
Just keep pushing and force yourself through a full run without repeating or reviewing mid-attempt. You are going to fail at first, but that provides you with important information and an opportunity to honestly assess WHY your images aren’t sticking. It’s almost certainly not because you didn’t review. It’s likely an issue with scene construction, element interaction, weak loci, unfamiliarity with your loci, or hesitation or overthinking when encoding that is causing you to lose focus.
As far as this idea that “top memory athletes review during attempts” goes, this may be true to a degree, but the reason is their pacing is incredibly fast and the sheer quantity of data they are encoding in a 5 minute or longer session is huge. If you get to a point where you are encoding words at a rate of two or three per second for a total of hundreds and hundreds of words then it makes sense to do a little bit of review just to confirm your reflexive imagery a bit. I’d hazard a guess that they would never feel the need to review their images if they were only encoding at a pace of 20 or 30 per minute, let alone per 5 minutes. Keep in mind, if they ARE reviewing, this review is also lightning fast. A quick whip around the loci. Its not usually actively re-encoding or adjusting the images, as far as I know. It’s probably a good idea not to compare your techniques until the pacing and volume of your attempts gets to that level.
You may also not be quite ready for a long 5+ minute event if you are having consistent problems retaining 20 images since a reasonable competition attempt would likely need be 100+ images at a minimum. (Unless I misunderstood your post?) Your totals are in the low range for a one minute event and very low for a 5 minute one. I’d look to get stronger in the one minute timeframe first, which would require you to go quickly and drop the idea of mid-attempt reviewing. Once that skill set is stronger, look to expand your time and image totals to match expectations for a 5+ minute event.
I really can’t stress enough that you probably won’t see much good progress until you drop this idea that you must review and repeat during an attempt. Review and repetition will mask problems with your technique because it is easy to recall poorly constructed scenes, weak images, and generic loci if you repeat and review them. The goal shouldn’t be how to retain weak imagery, it should be to create better and more memorable imagery so that there is no need for mid-attempt review.
So how can you achieve this?
You should figure out your baseline for success WITHOUT doing in-attempt review. Maybe its only 10 words in 5 minutes. Maybe its only 5 words in 5 minutes. Thats ok. Whatever it is, figure out the amount of words you CAN do with NO reviewing. Then, set up your attempts to show you one more word than that. If you can only seem to manage 5 words, set up your session to show you 6. It’s like exercising and forcing yourself to try ONE MORE push-up. It feels like you’re dying at first, but then its not a big deal, and eventually its no effort at all. Incremental advancement adds up to large gains over time. It’s much better to scale back your attempts initially to where you can successfully do no repetitions than try to keep forcing yourself through very slow times due to the perceived need to go back and review mid-attempt. Your images won’t get better if you keep covering for them by mid-attempt reviewing.
Trust your brain to do the job and push it to improve. It will be annoying and difficult and feel like a step back at first, but you’ll be eliminating bad habits and reinforcing good ones.
I could recommend some books, but explaining memory techniques based on words would create almost a book and I have said this in many posts, but it would be the same as list memory but in truth much more advanced, besides the fact that each person does not It is the same and the best thing is to extract what you find from each text.
I recommend you start with “Douglas Hoff” you have 3 books on memory on Amazon and it compiles many of the methods in one place.
Extracts parts from various methods that I use such as bruno, fludd, athanasius, giulio camillo, fabio ferruci, harry lorayne, ramon campayo, dominic o’brien, bob w. lingerfelt, etc… Some techniques will be easier than others and for words there is literally no method that is entirely simple.
The following is used in combination with mental places:
We would appreciate it if you would stop talking about a method that does not work in practice.
Before the thread totally derails… 
Welcome, @dago093 ! I think you’re doing great for someone just starting out. Keep on at it. Progress goes through fits and starts sometimes and there will be plateaus where it seems like you’re stuck, but like any other skill, the more you practice, the easier it gets. I’d listen to Donny’s advice and keep pushing yourself. You’re off to a great start!
@Magno @TheHumanTim Yes, I read Ron White’s book that teaches several good techniques. PAO, Linkingmethod, pegs… one of them is repetition… the one I worked on… I felt firm on this one… as I said, I tried 1 month last year without repeating and the speed increased by 10% but with 85% of objects correct… then I have doubts about the link method with repetition that I do… or try again, try without repeating… I’ve heard of a memory athlete who does the repetition… I also saw it in a memory app, teaching how to use the repetition… it’s quite common, Magno… like… without repetition I got 85% of words correct and only 10% faster than without… I’m in doubt… but my slowness is both with and without repetition… with You can definitely improve your performance by repeating it… my record is 40 images correct in 5 minutes in 2023 in the IAM image discipline… I know a lot of people use it like this… i found me thus…
Magno, I understood your point… I’ve known memory techniques since 2015… I’ve read books and videos by menemonists from all over the world… I’ve been training since 2020 trying to get 100% of objects right… I’m just showing my experience, which may be relevant… I can get an average of 18 words and 5 minutes repeated (with more than 99% correct) and without repeating I can get an average of 20 words with 85% accuracy in 5 minutes. so when you create a story without repeating it doesn’t make that much of a difference because in stories. . broom on top of a vase spends time creating history… it’s not repetition, just reviewing the objects… I just left it there… sometimes I try to do it without repetition, but I haven’t found a method like that yet… I value getting 100% of the correct objects… but I’m slow for without review and with review… I just explained what I do… see you later… @Magno
All right, Magno… good lucky on your journey… @Magno
I’m curious if perhaps you’re not spending enough time forming each image, and are trying to rush ahead, especially when you’re going to do repetitions.
Could I suggest trying it without repetition and actually aiming at just slightly above your current performance in either accuracy or speed – e.g. if you did 20 in 5 mins at 85% accuracy, then slow it down and try to do 10 at 100%, then 11, and so on. The images don’t have to be super vivid (I think advice to try to do that is misguided), but just give it enough time to sink in more.
It’s what I had told him, but he prefers repetitions… What you say is real, it is better to create a solid image than a rushed image… Memory for words is not very fast and even more so if they are abstract words to you.
I usually configure my images once, since I get bored of repeating although for large systems I have to do it, but I do not repeat my images more than 3 times, I feel that it is optimal for me.
Everyone must try what is optimal for themselves, since we are not all the same, that is why it is good to keep a record of practices to stop and think about what you have done well and what not so well or not at all well… This can help increase speed.
Yes, @Ganxel and @Magno … in the case of a face-to-face memory championship. It is necessary to get 100% of the words right. I spent more than a year trying to get it 100% right. A time has come… But that, I need to improve the speed. It may be, I don’t know, if the elite memory athletes they, repeat for 100% correct. I can only do it by repeating it. as I said… I left my numbers there. No repetition on average 23 words in 5 minutes with 86% correct words. and with repetition, 19 words in 5 minutes, but with 99% accuracy…
As I said, the difference with and without repetition is minimal. 15% more without repetition. I spent a month trying without repetition and most of the time I couldn’t get 100%. Well, I’ll guide myself by repeating, sometimes thinking, I try to find a way to do everything correctly without repetition. But I still haven’t found “the recipe for the cake” and even the speed is similar to repetition. Is my history it of the world of memorization… see you later
For words I use data structures… I don’t know if you use pao or the major system? It would help you to connect weak images to stronger images like those of those systems, I would recommend PAO, since you can continue adding characters just by seeing them committing the action or holding the object or anything that the actor of your PAO system does… I use the method described in “De umbris idearum” both for structures and words, also PAO, I use the major system but in another more gradual variant and without limit of images since I only use the first memorized images for the following ones… I am going gradually and without rushing, learning something from anywhere, many times I re-read the basics and ideas come to me, I just extract what I need from the methods and adapt them to me… I don’t like the phonetic limit of PAO/MAJOR, so I only limit myself to the first 100 images to concatenate the rest that enlarge my first 100 and so I add up… Always memorizing names to add to the structure and using methods such as the sculptor and painter to add details which can house images… Practice, extract from methods from books and document your experience… I never tried hard to understand Bruno, I only extract ideas from his methods and experiment. Memoria verborum is not simple and without practice it will be even less so.
Yes, @Magno … I use the linking method repeating. I learned it on Ron White’s channel, 2x US champion. I’ve also heard that repetition is a key to remembering something. Creating bizarre stories is also a good way to memorize, but I realized when I tried for a month without repeating that creating bizarre stories spends time making up stories. As I said, I average 21 words in 5 minutes without repeting. Just repeating with the Linking Method, because it’s no bizarre stories, it’s pure real life. I’ve always tried to select the that I’ve learned. I see in the memory championships 52 cards in 16 seconds. I’m curious how to achieve this. I think it’s a technique I haven’t found yet. But sometimes I always think of a technique to remember everything and that is faster…
It definitely does not involve any repetition. It’s not really any big secret. It involves having an extremely well drilled pre-defined system so that there is no hesitation whatsoever in recognizing a card or card pair and visualizing it’s associated image. It almost certainly uses the memory palace technique and a simple interaction of two or three elements at each loci. No repetition, just instant recognition, extremely simple scenes, and zero hesitation when creating them and navigating the loci.