A tip for using The Method of Loci

Over the past week, I have thought very much about some of Ben’s responses to my questions on his thread. I saw he did things a lot differently than me, particularly in his using objects that are sometimes bigger than the loci that “contain” them. And I have thought of how to improve my memorization, and I think I reached a higher level of understanding about what Ben was talking about. Maybe not, but I’m still on to something pretty neat.

At the local library this morning, I read a few chapters of a book called “Brain Booster.” The advice for names and faces and random words was really good, (really typical) and on the whole it was on the money with everything, though it focused a whole lot on linking and didn’t mention the method of loci at all. There’s nothing in the book you couldn’t find on the forums, but I did pick up one little detail, that I had heard before, but it seemed so obvious that it never seemed to be worthy of contemplation.

It was teaching how to remember a list of words, I’ll post the example in a little bit probably, but it said “take this first object, and connect it to this second object in a very unique and memorable way. Be as vivid as possible, take your time, just make sure that every object will remind you of the one that follows it.”. You can even transform or morph one object into another, as long as you can see it.

But here was the important phrase that is so easy to dismiss as too obvious to consider further: “Make sure to see the first object very clearly, because there will be nothing to remind you of it.” Obvious, right? Well, he is right - if you don’t have that first image firmly in place it can easily be forgotten. But this was written by a person who seemed to be totally ignorant of the Method of Loci. There are wonderful implications!

I was copying Ben’s methods as best I could - focusing on the links between objects more than their spatial position in the palace. And it worked well, though a bit slow. But I learned all of these techniques with the mistaken “understanding” that being fully engrossed in a very realistic palace is the key to memorizing well, so when I memorize, my palaces are extremely clear, and it was awkward to try to do away with the environment to some degree for reasons that I didn’t completely understand. And yet, when I forget cards or digits, I almost always forget an entire loci, not just one of the images in it. So what’s the point of such a clear palace if loci still wind up blank?

Today, doing those “pure linking” exercises slowly, I saw how loci are unnecessary. They are useful.. But not necessary. you had the time to spend, you could memorize a very long list of objects just by linking each object to the one that follows. The danger would be that one link along the chain could accidentally be skipped, and there would be no reference point to know where it was. Loci diminish this danger greatly.

That first image in a chain of linked objects really mustn’t be forgotten. I’ve recently been trying to transition out of the ‘PAO mindset’ that doesn’t totally apply to my new method of just memorizing objects. An example would be that in PAO, all three cards must be connected as one image. The first card is acting upon the third. And it’s probably best if the whole PAO image is visible at once.

See if this description of how to think about memorizing in loci is as new to you as it is to me:

Instead of thinking of the palace as a thing you can walk through while observing/visualizing wild happenings, what if the loci in the “palace” were nothing more than an orderly list of “first objects.” What if it didn’t matter if the loci could be walked through in a linear fashion? What if the only benefit of their existing along a path was that it made it easier to remember which loci followed another?

For the past few hours, I have memorized with this mindset. The first loci is my table outside. So I say, “How can I make this table remind me of a vampire?” Usually, I would just put the vampire on the table, prepared to act upon the object that follows in some way - probably biting it. That’s the PAO mindset. But in response to my own question, I thought “Well, if the vampire bit the table, that would probably do it.” So right away, the way I am using the objects is different. Then came “pacifier.” How can the vampire remind me of a pacifier? He just sucks it - the mouth of a vampire is very important to begin with. Then comes “Nurse.” How can I make a pacifier remind me of a nurse, specifically? She removes the pacifier from his mouth and replaces it with a thermometer. All of this is occurring in a kind of “Nether space.” It doesn’t matter that all of this is happening in the palace - all that matters is that each object reminds me of the next.

Before these thoughts occurred to me, I would have had the vampire standing on the table, picking up a pacifier, and putting it in the nurse’s mouth. It’s not incredibly interesting, but it is logical. It is true that the vampire and nurse could really be interchangeable with any other human or humanoid figures, but “why should that matter? I am relying on my ability to see these figures clearly, and if I do, they’ll be memorable.” That’s the PAO mindset I have been used to, but please notice that the conclusion does not follow from the premise - why on earth should such a statement be considered categorically true? Isn’t ‘Image B’ going to be more memorable if the impetus behind its conception was the question “How can I make this ‘Image A’ remind me of the ‘Image B’ that Is to follow?” as opposed to “How can I make this image look/feel/sound as realistic as possible?”

The loci becomes the first link in the chain, and all of the images that follow in that locus may or may not occur in the loci at all - for me, they don’t. Picturing them in the loci has become unnecessary, so it is a waste of cognitive resources. Also, linking the last object of one loci to the first object of the next has become unnecessary. You already know what the first object is going to be - it’s going to be the loci itself. And if that locus reminds you of the next image in the chain - you’re in business! Don’t depend on seeing an object clearly in front of a locus being sufficient to remember it! Make sure that the question of why the loci will remind you of the first object is answered by something other than “because I visualized them near each other.”

This change in attitude has enabled me to put 4 images per loci instead of just 3, (which I have wanted so badly to do!) without adding any time. Four objects were always so hard to visualize all together in a chain that logically connects the first image with the third, and fourth, so that they could be seen together. I just couldn’t do it. And I still can’t, but now I know why I don’t have to.

Is this as profound to anyone else as it is to me, or have I just stated the obvious?

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It’s profound when you come to it. :slight_smile: and it’s not obvious. The best learning is what you find out for yourself.
What’s interesting is how you had your ‘Aha!’ moment.
Thank you for sharing your experience.

Mhm, you’re very welcome. It surprises me how much better the images stick this way.

Hi LociIn TheSky,

The link method is great and I often use it for short term memorisation. I also find it really handy with the major system for memorising credit card and phone numbers etc, I just come up with the images on the fly and link them,

I like you idea of having the first loci as a known starting point as that can often be a problem with memorising chains, once you get the first one its easy but sometimes you can’t recall the first.

So in the same way that you have a load of journeys prememorised, you could have a load of anchor points prememorised for use with the chain method.

All you have to do is scan through your pre memorised anchors to find the start of the chain you want.

It would be a lot easier to pre memorise 50 anchor points that are completely different than 50 journeys.

I’m sure a solution to index the chain could be devised making it an impromptu method as powerful as prememorised journeys

Thanks for kicking this discussion off :slight_smile:
Hmmm lots to think about…

regards,

Sea

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After reading your post it just reminded me of Harry Lorayne and linked system in his book ‘How to Develop a Super Power Memory’. It’s very powerful, and I don’t think he knows anything about loci, yet he’s still great.

I never read anything of Harry Lorayne related to memory. When I first heard of him, I was actively practicing and studying sleight of hand, and knew of him from the magic world, where he was also very influential. He was still posting regularly on themagiccafe last time I visited. Since making this thread, I seem to have settled into a hybrid style of memorization. It’s really just regular memorization with palaces but paying a lot of attention to linking for once, and especially with the very first object of each loci, which I make sure to see in the spot it should be, but with the images that follow, seeing them in the loci has gotten a bit less important.

Very interesting thoughts here.

I think logical image-actions (or what I call congruous actions in my video course) are not as strong as incongruous image-actions.

For example, having Godzilla kick the Statue of Liberty so that she drops her torch is pretty memorable, but it’s a mostly logical image and is congruent with the reality of the Statue of Liberty in so far as she actually does hold a torch.

However, if she drops a machine gun and then picks it up and fires it at Godzilla in a bright blast of noise that ricochets through your mind, you’re more likely to recall this because it’s incongruous.

Another point: your example of biting the table reminds that a participant in my video course told me recently that he likes to focus on the texture of things. It takes just a second to imagine the “realness” of these images as material objects, but in experimenting with it, I find it a very worthy Jedi-mind trick for any mnemonic padowan to try.

Also, I think you’re right that using a journey through a Memory Palace eliminates the need to visually link the items. The journey does that work for you, and really works gangbusters if you set up your Memory Palaces using a few simple principles that take only a short time to set up, such as not trapping yourself or crossing your own path. If you’re particularly good at managing imaginary elements, you can include virtual Memory Palace elements that will get you into the thousands of items inside of a single Memory Palace.

Keep up the good work!

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Thank you for your input. I am surprised that I forgot to mention textures myself. It is much too slow for me to do that with all of my items, but when I imagine the first image’s texture coming into contact with the texture of the loci, which for me are not just empty spaces but usually furniture or the like, it makes a world of difference in getting that first image - the most important image - to stick where it’s supposed to. During recall, a loci may look blank, and in one of those cases, I will zoom in and look at the texture, and I usually remember what material made contact with it at that point. Yes, I “zoom in” very close when considering the first textures, then zoom back out to organize the show.

Your other point is not universally true. I don’t know if I mentioned this above, but on these forums I have said that the more logical and realistic a relationship is, the more natural it is, and thus easy to imagine quickly, allowing more time for it to sink in and ultimately to be easier to recall at equal speeds.

I know I am not alone in this. Dominic O’Brien shares the sentiment, and in his 2011 book, he described that if his dog had to fly into the clouds, that it would be a “tenuous link” that is difficult to recall. Hs case seems to be even more extreme than mine, as he really emphases this point in his book that is mostly didactic. It is true that the second example you mentioned would be easier to recall than the first, but not for the reason you stated. The description of it is far more vivid. If in the first example, the Statue of Liberty dropped her torch into the harbor, causing and enormous splash that soaked you, and a thick puff of smoke and hot steam that burned your eyes, I think the chance of recall would be fairly high, and for me, even higher than the second example because it is congruous.

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Can you explain your point in a more succinct way?
I’m not following it.

LociIntheSky:

I would never say that anything is universally true, but in my experience, it’s the things that make sense and lack absurdity that lead to “tenuous links” for the average person who just wants to be able to memorize simple things like foreign language vocabulary. Ultimately, it’s up to each person to experiment with all methods, but with all due respect to the masters, one thing that will probably never work is playing “follow the guru.” People need to be encouraged to play and create their own personal approach.

taskbar:

Who specifically do you need succinctness from?

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I would like to understand lociinthesky’s main point.

Well said.

Taskbar: Succinctness is not my strong suit because usually I find a thought process more interesting than a conclusion, but I’ll give it a shot:

It is taken for granted that the method of loci is effective because by vividly imaging a long chain of items along a path, a story coherent enough to be remembered as if it were true could be created. It now does not appear that that is necessarily the greatest utility of the method, and since the method is used differently by different people, that may not be the reason that it acually works in some cases. It could be instead that the loci are just basically “pegs” that always play out in the same order, and from each a new chain of connections can be made, while the proximity of each locus to each other remains irrelevant.

In process of reading this post I remembered about the Dominic O’Brien’s book. I took it from my bookshelf and found the chapter about the linking.

I think examples of Metivier and LociInTheSky are both working well. I prefer the idea of LociInTheSky. But what I really think about variant of Metivier is this - he is a tutor and he is doing right because funny story is what student need, to become engaged( everyone should be engaged in memory technics). And the best way to make funny story is to make it “incongruous”.
So,

  • if you just beginner in mnemonics - What makes your smile - will affect your more. You have time to make it funny("incongruous").. You have time to make it funny("incongruous").
  • If you are doing speed memorization - just use what came to your mind first. You don’t have a time to make it funny )
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THIS is really good. Thank you for your insight. It’s like my memory palaces have been trying to tell me this but I didn’t stop like you did and really process the issue at hand. When I find a good, logical reason for why an object/person/event is happening AT the specific locus, I seem to remember it for a very long time without review.

So Memory Palace + Linking Method = Dynamite

Metivier

LociInTheSky

here I agree with the quote mentioned by KosmoDED

Let me put my thoughts on this issue here

In case of action linking objects the degree of congruency is controlled by a silver lining of probability in an individuals domain
Both examples of Godzilla is clear for me , the better image (using touch,taste,sight,sound,smell) I create the better adherence it has. The only thing I worry is whether the event is possible. In this case both are possible for me even though highly improbable.

In case of the Dog flying example it is not logically possible for a dog to sprout wings and fly, thus it becomes tenuous. What came to my mind is that the dog is lying dead and angel takes the dog to the clouds (this is probable if you believe in god/angel/heaven etc). Other example I thought was the dog climbing a magic beanstalk/ getting in to helicopter/ Air balloon and going up towards clouds. These images are aided with taste,touch,smell,sight,sound

In case of the example like angel taking dog or climbing beanstalk, these even though in the real world is impossible we have heard of it and is familiar with the concept from fairytales and religion. This is what I mean by the sentence in an individuals domain

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LociInTheSky, is this technique still something that you use? This is an old thread and I find it very interesting. Just wondering how it has stood the test of time and how it may have evolved over the past few years. Thanks!

It´s interesting your profound approach to the matter. Giordano Bruno in his book “The incantations of circe” refers to a invention of him, called semimathematical numbers, who mean, arrangement of place-images following a numerical order. And he says that the locus is no longer necesary if we know our place- images by order, as you were saying. Sorry for my english.

It´s interesting your profound approach to the matter. Giordano Bruno in his book “The incantations of circe” refers to a invention of him, called semimathematical numbers, who mean, arrangement of place-images following a numerical order. And he says that the locus is no longer necesary if we know our place- images by order, as you were saying. Sorry for my english.

So Memory Palace + Linking Method = Dynamite

I use this for my monthly diary. 31 locations and daily linking of to-do tasks. It is dynamite! Best mnemonic thing I’ve ever done.

As far as congruous and incongruous, I think there is merit in using both at the same time. To me it is yin and yang and they are complementary. So if I thought about a vampire and a nurse and my mind automatically saw the nurse putting a thermometer into the vampire’s mouth, then I would go with that. Plus I would add some extra incongruous detail like the thermometer freezing and breaking and the glass shards getting on the nurse’s clothes.

Lately I have been experimenting with changing the image slightly every time I look at it. Just to make new connections, compound it, think about it in a different way. So when I look again at the vampire/nurse I might see her wiping her hands on her clothes and the broken glass cuts her hands. The next time I see the glass getting under her fingernails…

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Memory Palace + Linking Method = Dynamite

I agree completly. I would like my 50 cents to this. I do not think that the first image should be connected to the loci. Loci in the sky mentioned that he would forget an entire loci and I agree that a link to the loci is necessary. But since the images are linked in logical order you could also connect the middle or last image.

I like to take three images at a time and create a sequential scene. I like to see them all at once and I also connect a part of the scene to the loci so I do not forget the entire loci. But it could be any part of the scene.

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