I think I have 2 German words in my list. I’d expected to have more, but didn’t really need them. I have a couple of Japanese words, too.
Hi, I want to make a 3 digit system and so far I think the best option would be the Ben system. I have a few questions for those of you who use a 3 digit system:
Do you think it is better than a two digit system?
How many images do you place per locus?
Does a 3 digit system have slower recognition than a 2 digit system?
Would you recommend it for spoken numbers?
How long did it take to learn all the images?
MCEVE01, I hope others can answer your questions, but I’m going to refrain until I have more experience. One thing I will note is that a 3-digit system will definitely reduce your incidence of repetitions. Consider the task of memorizing 1000 digits in less than 1 hour to meet, for example, one of the GM norms. With a 2-digit system, you’d need 500 images, so each image you’d expect to encounter on average 5 times during the run. Maybe you can manage that, but what most people don’t consider is that that’s the average. The worst offenders (images that coincidentally repeat the most) could appear 11 times or more on a typical run, and almost all of the images (over 99%) will be seen. (I simulated this with a program.)
For a 1000 image, 3 digit system, you’d need 334 images to encode all 1000. If I run this through my program, the worst offenders repeat maybe 3-4 times, and 72% of the images won’t even appear once in any given run.
So that’s good news and bad news. The good news is that with a 1000 image system you won’t have to deal with repeated images anywhere near as much. The bad news is that normal practice (just using the system to memorize numbers) won’t exercise all of your images. You have to rehearse them systematically.
From a human experience, a lot of my new images are still surprising me, and I think that’s good. With 100 images, that doesn’t happen as much.
If you have 1000 images and one of them is Godzilla, when you finally see Godzilla it’s like “wow, Godzilla just showed up at my place and started crushing everything in sight and setting it on fire.” That’s pretty special.
If you have 100 images and one of them is Godzilla, you get used it. You see Godzilla all the time. It’s more Godzilla is your roommate you chat with all the time but still never washes the dishes. Somehow being Godzilla isn’t so interesting any more.
The major system is also a viable option to use for a 3 digit system, including fine options for binary and a 2-card systems as well as the Ben System. It is what I use and have found success with personally, which is why I espouse it. But the Ben System works too.
Yes, there’s no question about it to me. One or two people have reached elite levels with a 2-digit system, but it’s rare, and I wouldn’t count on you or anyone else to be the third person to make that work.
Different strokes for different folks. But for most of us it’s 3. I’ve had nearly equal success with 2 even though I rarely try it. Just the other day I set a PB with 2 per locus, but I think I could do it with 3/locus also. If possible, 3 is obviously better than 2 for the 33% reduction in loci used.
It depends on the user. I don’t think many people can recognize their 2 digit systems as quickly as I can recognize my 3-digit one. But Wang Feng can recognize his 2-digit images faster than I will probably ever be able to. Are you the next Wang Feng? Maybe you are, but for us humans, the 3-digit systems often start getting pretty fast before long, and that doesn’t happen as often with 2-digit systems…but of course it can.
For spoken numbers, it is just awesome. I love getting 3 seconds for each image.
I think you can memorize them pretty quickly. It takes a lot longer to get to the point where you never have to stop and think about it. And then longer to get to the point that you feel comfortable with the details of each image. It varies from person to person, but I would say that if you would be satisfied with an above-average competence with number scores in one year from the starting point, you should definitely do it. It took me probably a quarter of that time to go from a speed numbers PB of 120 to 240, and the rest of the year to get that up to 360, tripling the starting point. I practiced a whole lot to get there though, which is why I said “a year” above. A score of 240 is well above average on its own, and you can easily move beyond that with some patience. But with a few more months practice with a 2-digit system, that starting point could probably have been much higher and you would wonder if it was even worth the effort. It’s all so relative that it’s hard to even talk about. But I DO NOT think there is anybody who has learned a 3-digit system and regrets spending the time. I for one will never use a 2-digit system again.
If you plan on sticking with memory sports for years, and you have the patience to carry out long projects, do it.
It’s really nice post, Lance. Thanks a lot
Thanks, Lance. I’ve started on the Ben system for decimal and binary because I like his idea of one syllable words. I think I might use it for cards but 2704 images is a lot!
I have started my 1000 objects and am having a hard time with:
Anyone have some general tips for dealing with these 300 objects?
I like the idea of sometimes having exceptions but don’t want to confuse myself by having too many
I do feel that Loci’s estimation of 6-12 months is correct…
I will give you an update
All Major? If you are using the usual “6 = sh, soft ch, j, soft g, zh” then I understand. The truth is that combination isn’t as frequent as some others. Leading ‘n’ can also have more gaps for the same reason.
I adopt a variation where I moved the hard ‘g’ from 7 to 6 but I also allow 6 to represent the sounds above. In normal Major system, ‘g’ is grouped with ‘k’ which is logical as it is phonetically similar. However, ‘k’ by itself has enough matches to stand on its own, so I decide to move the ‘g’ to help out the ‘j’-ish sounds. I’m not saying I recommend it…in fact recently I considered undoing it because it’s less natural, but it did help with some gaps.
Whatever you do, it’s going to be a bit of a whack-a-mole exercise with 1000 images. You might make a change that makes one part of the table easier to fill in but it will make others harder. 5-10% nonsense syllables or creative cheats actually isn’t that bad.
Direct association is still possible with some of the 1000 images. For example, I noticed recently that when I look at 262 I sometimes think of a marathoner because 26.2 miles is the length of a marathon. That’s not my image, but it could be.
thanks for the tips
I have also modified by using some hard G for 6 in the second or third position
I am glad I am not the only one!
Wow working on a 1000 objects has been a real chore
Loci was right when he said it would probably take 6 months…
I can relate to this raykidwell…
I decided to build a 1000 object system back at the very beggining of June, and while I finally filled out the whole system about two weeks ago, I just find it really hard to find the motivation to learn them all well. I am not quite to the point where I can tell you all of my images from memory no matter how much time you give me, and as of this past week I have not been practicing much at all. I might try to just start actually memorizing strings of numbers, but only use 100 images at a time (by using the handy number generator in the “training” section on this website) to try to make the review process a little less boring, but there is no doubt that learning (and creating) your images will take a very long time. How far are you in the process raykidwell?
I also started about 1-2 months ago
I have 1000 objects typed into my Memocamp account
I have flash cards for half of them (that is right, 500 flash cards)
I know probably 50% relatively quickly
I know probably 30% but it takes a few seconds
10% I can get but it takes a while
5-10% I forget especially:
Right now my 5 minute numbers for 1000 objects are still slower than when I use my 100 object system
(even when I train on my memocamp account with the “My Major System” option on to identify the word
Hopefully my the time I hit the 6 month mark I will be able to use the 1000 object system faster that the 100 object system
I don’t know if I told you guys this but I learned my 1000 by placing them in a palace of 100 loci which I knew by number, 9 objects per locus in the order of a telephone pad. So xx3 objects were always in the top right corner. xx5 objects are in the middle. It was a little tedious but this whole process is I guess. I think you’re far beyond needing to do that Ray, but whoever it was on the last page who said they can’t recall the object list no matter how much time they were given might consider this option.
Also let me point out that in the Training section of this site, Josh made a script which randomly spits out the 10 groups of 3-digits separated by space, so you can pick the #xx that is most troublesome for you and read, visualize, or memorize items from only that group for more specialized practice. For example:
841 889 859 848 805 874 875 866 881 824 865 854 836 813 883 852 809 802 890 880 828 856 821 879 845 820 832 825 895 814 807 838 868 817 834 829 899 808 888 849 830 885 870 864 861 803 872 876 833 819 896 873 826 840 842 862 869 831 892 806 846 877 850 887 837 843 801 860 894 891 863 858 816 844 853 815 884 882 827 867 823 851 812 822 878 897 839 855 847 804 818 811 800 810 893 857 898 886 835 871
Thanks for the tips Lance
I forgot about Josh’s page with those triples
I have already made mini journeys for
and still need to do one for
I am currently about equal when I do binary with my 100 objects and my 1000 objects
give me another month or two and I anticipate 10% improved performance using 3 digits vs 2 digits
I eventually want a 50% higher PB for the amount of time and energy I put into it!!!
If anyone else is thinking of moving from 100-1000, please carefully do some homework and I say plan on practicing for 6 months…
THEN JOIN THE REST OF US USING 1000 images!!!
Hey hey, now. No reason to limit yourself.
There is a really nice program for this based on the dictionary. I use it to memorize phone numbers with just a 2-3 words.
But I don’t know if I may put link in here. license is free, so all can download it for personal purpose.
Please give us the link!
FYI, I’m starting a new set of 1000 images based on the idea I have just shared on my Less. L thread. I’m not in any hurry though. I wrote up 100 so far. But starting with the “s” is easy. If I can keep adding one hundred a week, I’ll be happy with that.
Basically, I’m using two major consonants for first and last and a systematic middle vowel that also affect the nature or category of the image that I create. That middle vowel also gives the middle digit. I’m planning to have a lot of invented words in this set of 1000s. If anyone is interested, I’ll put it up as I progress.
I’d be interested in seeing how it works.
Josh, here is how I started working on this:
First, I started giving a number to each vowel:
0 eh as in instr-eh- ment
1 Ah as in fl-ah-g
2 ee as in p-eo-ple
3 I as in dev-I-ce
4 o as in chl-o-r-o-phyll
5 u as in Nat-u-ral
6 ha or u as in C-u-lt
7 ay as in Corsay
8 i an in an-i-mal
9 ow or w as in p-ow-er or li-qui-d
Now, having done that I started what I had mentioned I was planning with just one vowel.
But since this is all a very new idea, I’ve had a change of heart after writing up aroud 270 pegs.
I’ve had another idea over the weekend and I think I prefer it. I’ve now created 30 pegs with it and I’ll show you what I’m doing. It is the same idea except that I’m now using two middle vowels with two major consonants. The major system gives the two last numbers of a 3 digit number. The first vowel is a normal vowel drawn from the word as it is wirtten in the dictionary and it gives or translates into nothing, no number. The second added vowel is as I have listed them above. It gives both a number and the category it belongs to inspires the choice of the image for that number. Let’s go over a few exemples.
Take the number 91 or BaT from the major system. Now bat may make you think of a baseball bat. A baseball bat in an instrument. So Let’s say, Ba"eh"t. That is how I’m now going to call a baseball bat and the value for this is going to be 091.
For Ba"ee"t, people, I like to select a well known person who is associate with the word, a bat player or baseball player. So Ba’'ee"t becomes a well-known professional baseball player. The number for him is 291.
For Ba"ha"t, in the cult category, I like to think of the cult of baseball and I represent this with team players as a whole as they cheer for each another after a home run or something like that. This will be number 691.
For Ba"i"t, the animal category, well then I think of a bat, the animal that flies at night, so a ba"i"t is a bat and is my number 191.
That is the system that I’m working on right now. I think it is a brand new idea and so I don’t know for sure how well it will work but I think it is a pretty good plan.