Wang Feng Memory System

Yeah , I completely agree that a number rhyme system would be easier to learn. I’ve used the Ben system for about two years now, and I can read a 3 digit decimal number instinctively. But it took a awhile.

Can’t the Chinese use Chinese and phonetics to develop their own major system? All they would need is 10 consonant sounds and 10 vowels to create a Chinese Ben System. I’m not familiar with the Chinese language, but sounds are sounds, and many translate across languages. I would think the principals would be no different.

I don’t think we will ever know if Wang would do better with a 3 digit or 2 digit system. I would argue he would likely be able to get extremely efficient with a 3 digit given the amount of time he puts in.

I think it’s debatable whether a 2 digit or 3 digit system is faster or more efficient. Of the top speed card times in the world, two were achieved through the use of the Ben System or a variant of (i.e. Simon System?). And of course Wang is in there. If 2 digit systems are faster, than why don’t we see more sub 30 second times through the use of 2 digit systems? The Ben System uses 27 times more images than a 2 digit system. Grant it, I’m speaking of card memorization here, where the Ben System gives you 100 percent more efficiency than a 3 digit number system, which only gives 50%. But the principal idea still applies - more images doesn’t necessarily result in less efficiency.

I believe it’s Wang’s stamina, which has been built up via 70 hours a week of practice, that enables him to achieve the constant rate of memorization he’s able to maintain…

I think it might take a while for Chinese to come up with a phonetic system. Because each character has its stand-alone meaning, mixing characters together changes the context and meanings and images altogether. If we were to take:

Tu (2nd intonation) - means picture
Tu (3rd intonation) - means mud, or ground
Tu (4th intonation) - means rabbit

Once you added prefixes and suffixes, the meanings change.
So it is not just consonant and vowel that are important, intonation determines the meaning of each character. In Chinese there are 5 intonations. In different regions of china, due to different dialects, people use different intonation.
I guess if they were to use a Ben System, they have to take into account the intonation (which is quite confusing already in its own) which would be a really complicated system.

Here are some blogs of Chinese competitors which you seem interested in:

Yuan Wenkui (Grandmaster and Wang Feng’s coach):

Wang Feng:

Liu Su (Grandmaster):

Yu Bin Jing (Grandmaster):

Guo Chuan Wei (Chinese Memory Champion before Wang Feng):

Dr. Yip (Grandmaster):

Janghan University Association of Innovative Thinking Memory:

Memory Training Network - Forum:
http://www.jiyili.net/forum-11-19.html

Memory Training Network - Training:
http://www.jiyili.net/forum.php

Many of the competitors have multiple sites and a number of the universities that are now involved also have dedicated memory training and competition blogs. Put them them through Google Translate. They all explain their systems somewhere or another.

If you join the site, good luck ! Ha ha. :wink:
It’s hard work joining with a translator but, it is worth it. There is a massive memory community on there.
It took me hours to join and I was able to guess a lot of things due to the buttons and icons being in the same place and layout as the Western version of the website. Even so, it took me hours.

ps. If you do join, feel free to add me but, don’t post any links to non-Chinese sites on my blog please: Dai-Griffiths_新浪博客

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hcc108. What is your name please and do you have a Sinablog ? My computer is too small to cope with QQ because of the memory size.

two character word is very comment in China so it is very easy and nature for chinese to build a 2-digit to object mapping system. 3 character words less common and thus not thus instinctive to build the mapping.

The memory system of Wang Feng has intrigued many people, myself included. Today I accidentally watched one of his videos, thinking about that system, and just a signle moment which caught my eye started the whole stream of ideas how to explore deeper. So the results of my analysis are available in the PDF file attached to this post. And I can say there are several things which I consider to be “not clear enough”.

That PDF file contains more than 20 pages of my own hypothesis which are based on the data obtained from the Internet.

I’m looking forward to the replies, even, maybe new theories!

Regards,
Milan.

Thanks for your interesting research Nightwalker.

I’ve taken a close look. The whole thing is very hard to understand without knowing the chinese language and culture. I know a little chinese but it was only on asking a chinese speaking friend that it started to make sense.

In summary I think, from the descriptions, it’s possible that he is actually using only 100 images. While there are several cases where it looks like he has more images, I think actually there are alternative explanations. Looking at your slides:

  1. “There are two different numbers 15, together with different images. The video with ‘all’ his images contains only the one on the left.”

Does this show he is using more than one image for each number? I think not, because:

  • We can see in the book that for several of the other numbers we can see, there is only one image. It’s only for 15 where there are two.
  • The book is quite a nice, well produced book with reasonably high quality images. I don’t think it’s likely that it represents Wang Feng’s exact own system, as he would only have reason to keep rough notes on that. More likely, it’s something that he used to teach the principles of his system to other people, in classes. When teaching the system to other people, it’s quite normal to say to people “here’s a couple of ideas for images for the number 15; use whichever one you prefer”.
  1. “another picture from the video seems suspicious in regard of using more than one image.”

Actually, I don’t think this slide is suspicious at all. Translating the Chinese, it’s just a really standard description of the method of loci. He’s got the names of various areas/rooms along the top (front yard, living room, etc) and has ten images distributed around each room.

  1. “Both of them contain number 54, but none of them contains the same image.” “…54 and 61 are represented by the following images, which only partially correspond to the previous group of images.”

The images for 54 and 61 make more sense when you know where they come from.

In Chinese 54 can be read as meaning “4 May”, which is immediately recognisable to Chinese people as the date of National Youth Day in China. So the image of 54 is a “youth” or “teenager”. While there are two images for 54 (one a young guy in a suit, one a crazy teenager), I think they may actually just be pictures for a “youth”.

The same goes for 61 - “1 June”, which is National Children’s day in China. So the image is a baby/small child. While the images in the book and the room are different pictures, they both represent a baby.

So mystery solved - there is no evidence he has more than one image for 54 (“youth”) and 61 (“baby”).

I don’t have explanations for the other scenes where you’ve found discrepancies between the images. But I suspect that it is simply the case that for the TV, they are using images that are easy to explain, rather than the exact images that Wang Feng uses.

So, maybe it’s the case that Wang Feng really is just using a very simple system, with 100 images, and placing two images in each location. In which case the secret of his success can’t be his system, but has to be something else - maybe training harder or better.

I’d be interested to hear if anyone has any more information about Wang Feng’s techniques and system.

Thank you for your answer.

I have no understanding of Chinese language, so please everyone, keep that in mind. I had no intention of disrespectfully criticise the work of Wang Feng.

You made really good points out there and after your response I’ve changed my mind. I was open to changing it… But it doesn’t mean I don’t want to read more. And that was the only goal. To get some answers. But it’s better to provide certain things I’m concerned about than stating here “watch this video, go to a certain time, and be careful, there will be a scene for two seconds which I don’t understand.”

Definitely nobody can say that he’s “cheating”, no, he’s done an amazing work and his success can be explained by the amount of work he’s put into memory training. I was just curious… :wink:

Thanks!

Thanks NightWalker for these very interesting slides. It appears that the order of the links may not only be from left to right and bottom to top, but also from the back to the front, as can be seen from the guy holding the flower. Had it been the other way around, I bet the guy would have been hiding the flowers behind his back with some flowers protruding from that position. That’s definitely interesting.

As someone who talks to Wang Feng regularly, I think I can help to answer some of your questions.

He uses 100 images and he puts two images on one location, that’s it. Considering the amount of effort that he has put in, it seems that a simple system can be as powerful as a large system, however, it takes a lot of work and patience to achieve the results that Wang Feng did in 2010 and 2011.

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This discussion is very interesting…

@jzhou: do you know how many hours he trained per day over how many months (before the championships) in order to get those results?

This video might answer your question: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WuldCEblwe8

Johannes Zhou joined the forums, everyone!! I’ve been keeping an eye on you sir…you’ve come a long way in the past 10 months.

Wang Feng has an incredible energy!!!
Just a video but i cant imagine the effort and everything back, it must have an amazing history.

5 to 6 hours preparing seems to be far over the average!
5 minutes doesnt take too much effort, but 1 hour twice is enough for getting deeply tired.
Sometime i heard from Ben Pridmore that it is not possible to keep atention in that level for more than 1 hour.
I beleve Wang Feng can do it.

Johannes Mallow is also incredible too!!

who is Johannes Zhou?

what he did in 10 months?

thanks YO !

Some another Johannes… Not Mallow… Just Johannes with all that goes with it, like, being a beast at memory sport. It is because of the name? I don’t know.

You are the master of masters, man!
Incredible results and fantastic advices from you!!
Those masters cant relax
lol

You have only 18!