Names and Faces

General Memory Chat
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I’m probably not in the best position to throw out advice on this topic since I forget people all the time, but what the heck:

The object of competitive N&F is to remember as many names as possible in 10 or 15 minutes well enough that you can write them back out in the half hour that follows, and that’s it. So the optimal strategy ought to be very different from that of real life application, where the scope is extremely narrow and the memories are intended to be fixed indefinitely.

To be a master of N&F, you need to know the minimum amount of time that you can spend memorizing the names of each person if memorizing n amount of names in m minutes while being so deft that you won’t spend a second more. Even if you don’t attempt to quantify these amounts, your intuition will have to pick up the slack.

To be a master of real life application of N&F strategies, you need to be able to memorize a name so well that you will always be able to recall it, the face well enough that you will always be able to recognize, and understand the permanent link between the two. Information must be deeply ingrained to be recalled, but learning information just well enough to merely recognize it when it is presented to you a second time is not nearly as demanding. You also need the ability to hold as many names as people you are to meet at once for the length of time between that moment and the time when you will be able to retire and reinforce your imagery. But that’s neither here nor there.

Maybe I’m starting to get a little wordy here, but the point is that for real life application, time saving techniques ought not to be used at all. Instead, the information should be elaborated upon and connected to as many ideas and sensations as you could convince yourself are relevant, and reviewed…at increasing intervals according to the principles of spaced repetition (assuming spaced repetition isn’t bogus).

Or in short, “I’d think twice about using the initials for your purposes, kbj.”

Timothy, I wish you would elaborate a little more. Every successful idea that is thrown into the N&F pot on this public forum is a precious resource.

One of my main problems with N&F (I haven’t done N&F since I made that last post) is not being able to remember the first and last name of a person, but I don’t leave many faces totally blank. Can you explain how a person like me might be able to use the “80/20 rule” to get the first name to remind him of the last?

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[quote=LociInTheSky]

Sure LociInTheSky, happy to elaborate… As with any memory technique, you need to know how it best applies to you. For those who can remember last names by just remembering first names, that will work. The point is: Focus on the triggers, and let the rest be remembered naturally. For people who can remember last names automatically if they focus on the first names, well and good. May not work so well for you or me, but it works for some people.

For me, applying the 80/20 rule with triggers, I KNOW that the stressed syllable concept works extremely well. Maybe initials works for you, but I think stressed syllables are a stronger trigger for a name if you want to think about it aurally, which engages more senses than just vision. In either case, obviously I don’t want to try to remember every syllable with mnemonics if I can remember them all naturally as soon as I remember what the stressed syllable is (or the initials, but again I prefer stressed syllables). Focus on the smallest part that gives the biggest results.

Concrete example: If I hear the name “Mstislav Rostropovich” a couple of times, or read it a couple of times and voice it in my head, I can remember the whole name. But I have to create some sort of trigger to recall the name. Now, the stressed syllables are (1) “mist” and (2) “Poe”. This guy is a cellist (basically the 20th-century cello equivalent of violinist Jascha Heifetz), so I’ll imagine that he’s performing on a cello that has a portrait of E. A. Poe, with mist surrounding him on the stage.

So every time I think “famous Russian cellist”, I think “mist Poe”, and I remember “Mstislav Rostropovich”.

Again, use what works best for you. If you prefer to leave it visual-only and find that just remembering initials is enough to trigger the whole name… well and good. But for me, it’s so much easier to encompass a lot more information when you use a whole syllable and focus on that instead.

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This thread is quite old but nonetheless, I’d like to share my experience with names and faces, and if someone responds, it would be great.
I tried out the techniques I have found so far, I will briefly describe them:

  1. Turning the name into something meaningful and linking it to the face. The problem with this technique is that the association for some reason works only one way, that is, during the recall I would blankly stare at the face and nothing would come to my mind, unless, if I am lucky, sometime later the image I created for the name would spontaneously spring to my mind and then I would remember both the name derive the face from the association. To sum up: if the names would be written down, this technique would work perfectly (obviously deriving the image from the name is easy, as the image was inspired by the name in the first place), but when only faces are presented, this method yields rather disappointing results.
  2. Dominic O’Brien’s method, when you associate the face with something (the first thing or another person that springs to mind), then associate a place with that thing/ another person, and then associate the person’s (the person, whose face you need to remember) name and place it in the location. This works far better, because when the face is presented, the association chain springs up almost instantaneously, as it was created in the same direction (i.e. the image was derived from the face). The problem is, this is way too long and more often than not, I simply cannot think of any association, so I have to excite my imagination which is very time consuming. Conclusion: good in real life, for long term memories, but would seem unsuitable for memory competitions, as the time constraints are very high.
  3. Ron White’s technique, of creating a fixed set of images for the most common names and linking them to the salient features. I haven’t tried it, but clearly this is just an elaboration of the first method, so it will be even faster, but doesn’t seem to solve the inherent problems of that method.
    Currently I am using O’Brien’s method, as the speed seems to improve with practice.
    I’d love to hear how others get around the problem of compromising speed and quality of memory.
    P.S.
    Probably it is clear from the post, but nonetheless I’ll point out that I am a newbie in mnemotechnics.
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Hi rzaytsev

What you describe is almost the exact same thing I’ve been experiencing with names and faces. I have been struggling with recalling things I linked to a face or a certain part of the face. When I play names and faces on memory league I use some kind of combination of the methods you described.

When I have a name, that’s for example also a name of a co-worker of mine, I imagine the face at the desk of that specific co-worker. That happens almost instantly and is easy to recall. For some names I have pictures that represent the names but it’s always harder to recall them when I look at the face. Sometimes I just go with what comes to mind. I don’t think there’s one method that suits everyone. But if anyone thinks he or she has such a technique, I’d be very happy to hear about it.

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Hi Silvio,
Thanks for your response. Indeed, linking the face of the person you are trying to remember to that of an acquaintance does seem to be a very powerful method, but, as I understand, I am not the only one to struggle for it to work every single time. I’m relieved to hear that I am not alone to tackle this problem, hopefully someone will find the solution and share it with everyone.

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I have a great deal of problem with faces in real life. I can walk past a person I have spent time with the day before with no recognition. That was my main purpose for developing my own system. I am also using it for competition.

My issue was making a connection, especially given that a huge proportion of names are not standard familiar names. So I set up a system where the name dictates which facial feature I am looking at, so I don’t have to decide on the fly. I have based it on the idea of a medieval bestiary - they used them for memorising vices and values, but I am more interested in names and faces!

For every common combination of first two letters, I have assigned an animal. I then assigned the significant feature from that animal and look for that on the face. I came up with 220 of them - it took a year to get distinctive features for the list. I had far too many dogs and cats and birds initially. Many are pretty easy to remember the animal. Aa - aardvark, so any Aaron I check out the tip of his nose and see if it is fleshy, imagining it more so. About 40 of the combinations didn’t give me an animal, so I used a plant or object or occupation. Ae is an aerialist. Yvonnes and Yvettes get an apology because I couldn’t find anything.

Usually I can then recognise the feature when I see it again. Often the first two letters is enough to trigger the name. I then use something else for the rest of the name if I need to. I have a default for each combination (eg. Br - Brian or Brenda, St - Steven or Stephanie, plus note spelling if Stephen) and think no further if it is the default. I can add the surname using the same system with the first animal dominating the second. I get great images of people with aardvarks attacking witches (William or Wilma) and so on.

If there is a name which isn’t one of my 220 ‘animals’, then I use my Visual Alphabet animals from just the single starting letter - 26 that I use as a temporary memory palace all the time. This means the name starts with a really unusual combination.

For some really common names, I have a link which is meaningful and don’t use the bestiary although I will usually glance at the relevant feature just to double check on recall. I am developing links for typical endings such as Yanjaa describes above. -cia, they are a spy, and so on.

I am now painting the entire bestiary in medieval style because it is amusing me to do so and each of the 220 animals comes really quickly when you have a clear image of the defining feature. I am a long way from getting good at this at speed, but it is a rigorous system and that is what I needed. It is certainly working well for me in real life.

Lynne

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Hello Lynne,
Thank you very much for sharing your technique, it sounds very interesting! Particularly it attracts me, because it is a proper algorithm, no need to rely on “thinking on the spot”, so it must be very efficient. I am very excited to try it out! I’ll post about my results, though, as I understand, it takes a lot of practice before it starts working properly.

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Hi Rzaytsev,
It doesn’t take that long to start if you have the list of animals worked out. That is what took me so long. I needed to get each one matching a distinctive feature on the head shot for competition. It is less demanding in real life because you aren’t limited to heads.

If you are interested, I would happily send you my spreadsheet list and then you can adapt from that. I’d love to have someone test it and help me improve it. Just PM if you want to. I won’t be offended if you’d rather make up your own.

Lynne

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I’m new, be nice…

Can’t you use a memory palace and break a face down into a set of features like skin color, hair color, nose type, mouth type, etc.

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Interesting idea. I can’t see how it would work, but I’d be intrigued to hear if you or anyone else tries it. How would you then link to name?

And … welcome!

Lynne

Sovereign_Headspace's Training Journal
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What I’ve tried is put the faces (or the thing that stands out to me on the faces) in a memory palace. The problem is that I would need a picture for the name that I could instantly put in the same location as the face. That has not worked well for me (especially when I tried to go fast on memory league). It has been easier for me to just put some people in a location that I associate with the name or to link the face to an image that I have for the specific name. I have been thinking about making 26 palaces (one for each letter) and put the people in the palace that corresponds with the first letter of their name. That seems highly ineffective and does not guarantee you to recall the full name, so I have not made the effort. If nothing at all comes to mind for a name, I sometimes use my 26 pictures that I have for the NATO-Alphabet (for example: C - Charlie Brown) and link it to the face so that I at least get the first letter. But that’s not very effective either, only my last resort.

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I am exactly like you, Lynne. “I can walk past a person I have spent time with the day before with no recognition.” I have an easier time recalling the name than the face. Thank you for your post!

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Thank you for your very helpful post. I am going to work on your suggestions, not for competition, but just for my life:

  • Focus on learning the 100-1000 most common first names.
  • Focus on first names, not last names.
  • For first names you don’t know, focus exclusively on the stressed syllable.
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So glad I’m not the only one. It can be so embarrassing!

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REF: “Learn the top 100 most common names”
I assume is to have a pre selected image like “stove” for “Steve” for top used names?