Card deck memorisation - post your times here!

Good stuff DH, congrats!

I went through my first decks in a week. Did three this morning after a short warming up with a few rows of digits:

2.30 1 error
2.00 1 error
2.10 2 errors

And tonight I just did four more:

2.48 perfect
2.12 perfect
1.59 2 errors
2.00 2 errors

I’m not unhappy with these stats, although I really feel like I have to get used to my new images, they are slowing me down. But I know it’s worth it because I also noticed that my images were very clear. Looking forward to kicking your butts soon.

Oh yeah those are great times for anyone if you have new images…

I’m reconsidering a few myself…Einstein and Indiana Jones are decidedly unclear…but I’m finally getting used to recognizing the cards which was so frustrating during those first two weeks…ugh, just don’t want to repeat that. Maybe I’ll just look at a zillion pics of Einstein and finally watch the Indiana Jones movie, which I probably should have done at some point anyway. The only one I’ve seen is the newest one, which is sort of a travesty I understand.

DoubleHelix, I have experienced unclear persons as well and tried to watch pictures of them again and again to make them more vivid. This has not been working very well though.

I think that a better idea is to make the characters in question more unique by giving them some very vivid characteristic. For example you could make Einstein’s hair even more crazy then it actually is (like a big, white, electrified lion’s mane) and have him always be sticking out his tongue (and make it abnormally big). Also to give them special clothes helps a lot.

I have done that for some of my non-vivid characters. One has got very big glasses, one has become extremely fat, one has even got a chickensuit! This makes it so much easier to visualise because you just have to think of that very easily perceived detail to quickly get the whole image. On some of those I don’t even try to picture the face, I find that it is often not necessary.

Hope this might help! :slight_smile:

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That’s really great advice, I know that will help, thanks very much. I chose most of my characters based on physical features unrelated to the face but didn’t think o do this for the ‘weaker’ persons.

I’ve done that with some of my characters as well and it really works. Some images just didn’t get vivid enough, though, and changing them seemed better. What helps me in changing images, is that I try to trick my mind into believing that the new character is actually the same character, only in disguise. For instance, my 64/4S was Salvador Dali, but I kept forgetting the guy. At one point I just acknowledged that I hardly knew him and had to get rid of him. I had Spiderman on the bench eager to play, so I brought him in and sent Salvador out, but I told my mind otherwise. I pretended that Salvador merely changed his suite. So when I needed to memorise 64 or 6S I imagined Salvador wearing a Spiderman suite. At first I kept his corresponding A and O painting and easel and only later changed them into hookshotting (thanks DH!) and spider. I’ve done the same for my 86/6H who is a former teacher of mine. Initially I wanted to change only the A and O cause they interfered with other As and Os, the P was fine. I really liked the matador set of traits (holding a red cloth [A] and a bull [O]) so I just put the teacher in a fancy matador suite and changed his A and O. Worked great.
And I also try to keep the new image in the same category as the old one to make the transition easier. So I changed my old nr 06, OJ Simpson, into Stanley Hudson (The Office character), who are both black dudes. I changed my 80/10H, Dutch queen Beatrix, into Dalai Lama, who are both leaders. This may not be politically correct, but I reckon those rules don’t count in the mnemonic scene.

Also done some decks today:
1.47 perfect
1.37 I error
1.40 4 errors
1.44 3 errors
1.31 6 errors

Coming for you…

Hi Guys,

So, any feedback on this:-

"A question for all of you:-

What would you say is the fastest time you can get (roughly) without any problems in recall? My best is 3:19, but to have no problems in recall and reel them straight off, it would probably be 4:30-5 mins! Intersted to see others responses?"

:slight_smile:

EDIT - It probably only takes about 3:30 without recall problems now. Should have just blasted the 3 min barrier, but realised near the end of my journey that I got a card association wrong and it put me off my stride!! GGRRRRR!!!..

Hi guys!

First off, I wanna thank you for all the great advice in this thread!

I’m new to mnemonics. After reading Foers fantastic book, I was totally hooked, and made a PAO-list for cards (12 days ago), and I’m now down at 3:30 without errors. I’ve been doing about 2-3 decks a day, but spend alot of time in this forum - and this thread especially :wink: It has helped me tweak my system very effectively.

It’s motivating to follow other people progress!

Planning to be posting my own progress in here :slight_smile:

Well DH,
you said I should be on 2:20 by now.
I could only get to 2:35, which is another 15 seconds off this week.
It was hard going and that time is pretty much a one off, I haven’t managed to do it again, or even something similar.
But I guess it wasn’t an ideal week for concentration, I was working night shifts.
So on the one hand I am encouraged by my time, but on the other it really brings it home to you how obscenely fast some of you guys are, and how far off the pace I am.
At the moment I cannot even begin to comprehend halving my time!
I will have to keep my eye on the 2 min mark and then adjust that target again when I can consistently achieve that.
To go further than 2 mins I will have to overhaul my methods.

Huggy. Hows your times? I guess 3 minutes is approaching for you?

Hi Paul,

My times have been consistently around the 3:30 mark. I still havn’t beaten my 3:19 as yet, but I have been getting pretty good recall which according to the lightning fast people on here means I can push harder.

To be honest, I am torn between going at light speed to try and beat my time and taking a little longer to get the buzz that you get from a quick perfect recall!!..

As frustrating as it is to push through at warp speed and then have blanks, I am assured it is a good thing and a requirement to improve your times, so it looks like I may have to forego the buzz of perfect recall for a while and heed the advice from the elders!!.. :wink:

I’ve noticed that I’m actually faster to begin with, than after a deck or two. I don’t know why… I AM using different journeys, but none the less I sometimes expirience ghost images. Are you guys always better / faster after “warm up”?

Another thing: The first journey I did was inside my parents home, and since that I’ve made 3 outdoor journeys. The images seem to be much easier to remember when they are placed outside! Maybe it’s because I’m able to see them from distance, I don’t know. Does it make any difference to you? Two decks today: 2:47 and 2:51 without errors! Although the recall on the first one was like 12 minutes. New PR! :slight_smile:

Hi Vonde,

I do kind of know where you are coming from with regards to the outside journeys and I think this may have something to do with the changes in scenery/loci (landmarks, etc) rather than you seeing your PAO from a distance.

The reason I say this is because I have 3 journeys that involve houses and the two larger houses that take more of an adventurous route are easier to work with. When you are moving from one basic room to another basic room, I think your mind cannot differentiate in enough detail.

Also, I have an indoor journey around my gym which is quite good as I incorporate the characters with the different gym equipment in each loci! Handy seeing as I have The Hulk and Arnie among my characters! :slight_smile:

2:57 - but cannot count this as I got 3 errors and a 13 min recall! :confused:
3:19 - no errors (still) :wink:

Paul

I said you would be at 2:20 because I am a
Firm believer in setting bars very high. If I don’t succeed, it doesn’t really matter because I know I set the bar at the maximum of what is possible anyway. If you shoot for the moon they say, then even if you miss, you will land among the stars.

So to reiterate, I estimated 2:20 not because you should be there by now, but because believing that is possible has ony case yielded good results overall regardless of whether the goal is met. And frankly, 2:35 is damn close, so I don’t think I’d feel discouraged in your position personally.
And proper sleep is very important for memory consolidation.
Vonde-

I don’t prefer one to the other, but one cool thing with the outdoor journeys is you can make imAges 100 feet high if you want, which has been helpful at times.
Oh, I just read your other post. 3:30 in 12 days with 2-3 decks a day? Christ. Christ! Wonder where you’ll be two weeks from now… You must have a great PAO list. How did you select it?

So now I have a little more news, though I only just posted here.
Laying in bed last night, very tired, had already thought of a good enough reason to take a day off from training, about 11pm, been up since 4.30am and done a 13 hour shift, reached over to turn the light out and saw a couple of decks of cards staring back at me.
Off I go.
2:32, so fast for me, but 7 errors.

Second deck I motored along (for me), even had a thought mid-pack where I remember thinking ’ I’m way too fast, these won’t stick’.
Couldn’t believe the stopwatch had stopped at 1:58.75!
However, recall, while pretty decent for most of the cards, still left me with 7 cards after I had remembered all I could.
I managed to place them, but to be honest most seemed like they were guesswork.
On checking, found I had reversed 2 cards!

Pb clean run still 2:35 but have managed to prove to myself overnight that I can do a sub 2 minute. Very definately did not feel comfortable, but maybe a hundred decks from now it will be.

So what was different about this session?
My wife was snoring beside me.
How can I sort this at the next competition?

Huggy, regarding your comments about speeding along at an uncomfortable pace, I would have to say that I fall into this bracket. If it wasn’t solely responsible for my improvement, it doesn’t seem to have hindered it either.
But it’s not the way I would choose to do things if left to my own devices.

Managed to shave a few second off of my 3:19, not much though:-

3:13 - no errors, fast recall
2:57 - 3 errors, slow recall

As there isn’t too much time difference between the two, I can only assume that my perfect recall and beating the 3 minute barrier is now imminent, though I will certainly be risking error now to see what my mind can do…

Huggy,

You are probably right about the loci/scenery thing. I will try to create another indoor journey to see if it’s the same problems I face…

And congrats with the new best! :slight_smile:

Is it 5 minutes for recall in a competition? I must say that quite a few of my recall times are longer than that :confused: Maybe it’s because I don’t use a second deck, but just say the cards in my mind and turn them one by one. When I get to blanks I put the cards a side and do them in the end. The problem is I don’t know which cards I need to place, before I scan the deck for missing P, A or O. I’m have been getting much faster at this, but still it takes time.

DH,

Yes, I must say I’m surprised that my times keep dropping. But ofc a plateau will come, and I know that THAT’S the time where it gets tough! Well, the PAO-list i created was very good to begin with. I didn’t use the Dominic system or anything, I just thought of all the friends, family, superheroes, sport stars, comic figures and so on, that I found easiest to imagine. I’ve just changed one thing from then… but I need to change more though. Before I did my first deck, I practiced alot on just remembering each card and image, getting down at about 45 sec - 1 minute for that. So from the very first deck I did, I could focus entirely on forming images and connecting them with loci, not having to trouble with card translation. That worked well for me.

Vonde,

I think you will notice the difference with a more abstract journey. :slight_smile:

Have you tried using the icue app instead of using a deck? Only the other day, I used a deck for the first time to see the difference, but up until then, I have only ever done this via my iphone app. It’s quicker, easier and you can do it anywhere! No shuffling, no sorting, just go!..

I do most of my practicing on the way to and from work, which I obviously couldn’t do on a packed train with a physical deck…at least not without the fear of looking like a retard! (People just don’t understand our gift!! ;).

Also, I tend to take a screen shot everytime, I get a new time. It motivates you and keeps a track of your progress.

Very nearly new time!!!.. 2:48, but with one error…god dam it!! 3:13, it still is then!! GGRR…

So, let’s answer some questions:

Huggy, I guess 1:30 or something and then I can recall without much problems.
Vonde: Warming up was very important for me at first and it still is (I always try to do at least 4 decks in a row) but the difference is fading quickly. First, I was about 1 minute slower at the first deck then at the last and right now it’s 10 seconds or something.

My own times are around 1:20 right now but I’m having a lot of problems getting them all right. I might change another 6 P’s or something because some of them just don’t stick that well.

Also, I don’t think that there’s a limit.
I admit that a few weeks ago I was kind of stuck at 2:09 but when I broke through that my times went down by a minute in a week. If you stay sharp and if you keep improving yourself by thinking of ways you can become faster and better, I am not sure if you’ll get stopped by a limit.

I did clock at 1:10 but there were a couple of errors so too bad.

Wessells, thanks for your response.

I have changed quite a few of my associations! If they don’t stick after a couple of weeks, you have to assume that they will never be as strong as they could be.

Everyone seems to agree that your recall becomes easier, the lower your times get, so if you are still having trouble recalling, it can only be either your P’s as you suggest, or the other factor which I think alot of people overlook - Placing the PAO into the Loci!

I know this sounds obvious, but I have even caught myself doing it where I get to a loci, create the scenario, but forget to conciously forge the two together.

Haven’t had a lot of time to practice the last couple of days. Had to squeeze in my rounds in between other stuff, but this morning I set a new pb: 1.25! It was the second of three decks I tried. The first one felt quite fast but I failed to put the stopwatch on, which I only found out after I finished, so I haven’t got a time for that one. The third was 1.33, also with a perfect recall.

And tonight I did three more. This time I tried it with the whole deck in my hands, as if you’re looking for a particular card: the first one was perfect, but again I failed to put on the stopwatch… ( I use online-stopwatch.com and you need to click TWICE to get the stopwatch running, and I keep forgetting … :slight_smile: ). The second deck was also without errors and I clocked 1.49. My third attempt was also with the whole deck in my hands, but this time I began at the bottom, like Ben Pridmore does. This one took me 1.35 but I made three errors, all at the beginning of my journey (i.e. at the bottom of the deck). I think I will keep practicing with the whole deck in my hands from now on, as it will no doubt save time once you get the hang of it. For now, I’ll try both starting at the top and at the bottom of the deck. The advantage of starting at the bottom is that it is much easier to move the cards, as you can use both your thumps. Obviously, the disadvantage is that you have to recall in reverse, but I reckon you can get used to that quickly.

What helps me speed up things up is to really try to quiet the inner voice as much as possible and use my mind only to see images. When I first began practicing digits and cards, I would hear this little voice going like ‘ ah … there’s Tony Soprano … what’s he doing? he’s playing with a ball … ah and hammer falls on his head!’ etc. Now I really try to just see the images and scenarios without describing them or commenting on them verbally (in my mind). The inner voice is much much slower than the mind’s eye! I can see it happening when the inner voice kicks is. For instance, I’m going though the deck rapidly and I notice I made an error in coding a card or skipped a locus, then I can often hear and experience the voice coming (complaining, commenting) in and immediately the tempo goes down.

And to those who are reluctant to leave their comfort zone I say “push it push it some more!” When you keep pushing it, your experience of time will somehow change. I find it very hard to describe, but when I was on 3.00 min, I really believed it was impossible to go any faster, as I filled every second of those three minutes with lots of mind activity. But when I got faster (by pushing it!) I needed less mind activity to get the images to stick, and somehow this decrease of activity in the mind has changed my experience of the same amount of time (it seems more!). Now I am around 1.30, I experience those 90 seconds in the same way I experienced 3 minutes when that was my pb. In other words, time is always completely taken up by mind activity. Reduce mind activity and time seems more. I hope this makes sense, and if it doesn’t, too bad!

@ Huggy I’d say I’m in my comfort zone around 1.45-1.50 now. With those times I can usually recall fairly easy. Are you still reviewing before the end of the deck?

@ Vonde I’m often faster after warming up, but not always. Sometimes I go like rocket the first time. When I’m too warm I have to stop cause I start mixing up images from previous sessions and my concentration decreases. I’d say 45-60 min is my max, then I have to stop or take a break. With regard to my journeys, I don’t particularly favor outdoor ones over indoor ones. I use both and if I had to choose, I would probably choose indoor ones, but the difference is only minor and I wouldn’t really know why.

Rompie, maybe you can help me. I’m at around 1:20 now but my recall is starting to suck, also, I always hear that voice and I already got rid of Gary Kasparov because of his name.
Also, the first 3 and the last loci are really really difficult for me to remember, do you have the same problem?
I took cards in my hands when I was around two minutes and it worked really really well. I start from the top and have no trouble moving the cards at all.

So, two things.

  1. How to shut that voice down.
  2. How to make the first three clear?