The flimsiness of recall increases with memo speed?

Hi all,

I memorized a deck this morning. The time piece failed so I don’t know how long it took me, but I estimate 70 to 80 seconds, possibly the 60 second range. For me, this is really fast. My score was 31 good cards which is about 5 better than I usually do at this speed. But please, listen to me as I go over my correction:

  1. 3 of hearts, yea, got it no problem
  2. it must have been the spades 0-10, unsure. If it was the spade then it more possibly was the 8 then the other cards, I think. Got it!
  3. must have been a club, 0-10, feel sure but not 100%, I have a strong intuition it could be the 8. Got it.
  4. dent de rat, I definitely remember saying that to myself, 4 of diamond, easy, got it
  5. big blank. Nothing seems to be it. Perhaps a diamond again to go with the last card? This guess feels like, ‘well, it is the best hunch I can come with’, so what card? I look at my images for diamonds and nothing stands out. Then I think, which is the worst image that I would be the most likely to miss if it were that one? That makes me zero in on the Incisive tooth, ace of diamond. Got it.
  6. Equally blank. Nothing seems to be it. I start thinking it’s the 6 of heart but I sense I’m just imagining it. Then I think it may have been a spade, but none of the images there seem right. Then the 3 of spade seems to be associated wrongly with the next set of images. I decide to go with that. Got it!
  7. after some search, the 9 of heart rings a bell. I am not quite sure because I remember working on that image recently, and that might be what makes me think it is. I consider the 6 of heart but, then decide to try my first hunch, got it.
  8. 6 of spade, it came quickly although I was a bit afraid it might be the 4 of spade. Got it.
  9. right away, I saw the club wall 0-9 and the word Rommel rang in my ears. 5 of club, got it.
  10. 2 of Spade. Didn’t quite see the right image there but I knew when encoding that I had made a common mistake and remembered that too, so no sweat there, got it.
  11. Nothing here. I kind of finished all the other “sure” cards and came back. 6 of heart seemed possible but It could be just my imagination. I guessed the 10 of spade knowing it was a darn poor guess. Wrong card, it was the 6 of Heart.
  12. nothing appears at first. The 6 of spade remains and it looks like “il l’a mange” king kong eats woman, could be it. The other possibilities don’t give me quite that feeling. Got it.
  13. Jimmy Carter, I had just seen him on FB recently building a home. 7 of clubs, got it.
  14. sugar bag, zoomed on it right away, got it. 4 of clubs
  15. Clip, cleptomane, yes, easy 9 of Diamond
  16. no clue, I thought I remembered castle 5 of Spade and I had, but castle is in the 17 loci, not the 7th. It was the 10 of spade. Wrong
  17. no idea what so ever. I guessed 3 of diamond knowing it was a poor guess. It was the Jack of clubs. Wrong
  18. Friar, a Portuguese priest. 4 of spades.The special sound of that word made it really easy to recall. Got it promptly.
  19. no clue at first. 6 of Diamonds? 3 of diamonds? King of heart? Certainly not king of heart. Maybe a club? I guessed 9 of club thinking that maybe it is a card from that wall that I had missed. No, it was the 6 of Diamond. Wrong.
  20. I should have had that one as I vaguely remembered hearing “pas pesant” but then hallucinated that it was the paint, ace of hearts. Wrong.

It seems like the faster I memorize, the better I must become at guessing during recall, while memorizing seems like I am always doing the same thing there. I suspect I am getting better at guessing not at remembering. Maybe the 2 are related. Have others experienced the same thing?

I do want to add here that this is a picture of the less l. method at work at the recall stage with pre-posted images. So other mnemonics may not experience quite the same thing as they recall their cards.

I have experienced that. During on my recall the last cards that haven’t paired yet are the one that should be focus based on your logics whether you’ve seen that combinations or not. Also I force the image to come out to that specific locus if I can’t really see the combinations. But I tried not to get the habit of just guessing. I think you’ll also learn when you go faster to trust your images. Maybe you’re far more experience than me but I already made it to a lil bit higher than yours. So it is 1 is to 1. xD Goodluck!

Thanks JayroldF,

Personally, I do want to keep guessing because often, the guess is educated and right. Also, I secretly hope that I can guess a whole deck of shuffled cards one day, even perhaps bypassing memorization.
I think my cards will never trust me, so I don’t spend much time hoping to learn how to trust them either.
Right now, I’m more focused on tempo. I think that learning to go at a steady pace is something I can learn to do more easily than how to trust my cards and I think this could have benefits as well.
I’m also focused on other things, but they are specific to my method. This involves drilling the cards a lot in a specific ways. If it works out, I may continue to improve, at my own favorite snail pace. Well, maybe if I had a choice, that snail pace wouldn’t be my favorite pace to improve. LOL.

Others have dwarfed my progress pace with their own progress and couldn’t believe I could progress this slow. Now with your progress speed, you dwarf the progress pace of those who couldn’t believe how slow I was progressing, and I do like that a lot. Keep it up, JayroldF.

:slight_smile: I do also think about just guessing sometimes. Wishing that I could memorize it even before I flipped the cards, imagining that I could see the cards in x-rayed-eye mode so I memorize it faster than in competition. What a funny imagination :slight_smile:

I didn’t study tempo bcuz just like words sometimes your slow on other image and sometimes you see image immediately. But, maybe I subconciousnessly learned it cuz I sometimes use metronome but not now. Maybe not using metronome will help you keep your confidence and to find your comfort zone and using metronome will help you to get out of comfort zone & help you to speed up!

Even I, just have the snail progress but forcefully using it to gain improvement everyday. I’m also comforting myself for thinking that if I could do that snail-progress everyday I could go down at sub-20s in a year. This is just my speculation but I think, maybe you didn’t really try to gain speed for a short period of time BEFORE and your mind get to used to that pace and now it’s so hard for you to gain speed. Maybe you just do speed cards everyday and not really trying to improve cuz you might think its not good to make mistakes. I just remember what I read or maybe someone told me I can’t remember, xD but it says that “One must sacrifice something to make huge improvement”.

Yeah, thanks though I’m not doing cards everyday. I focused more on my study. Its good that I knew mnemonics unlike my classmates that cant store huge amount of informations for a short period of time and get a high score, Its like cheating on them HAHA Lol. :stuck_out_tongue: but I’m now stable at sub 35 secs sometimes I do sub-30s. Also, I did a friendly sub 30sec race with @Shasan. He winned but I probably the one the should’ve win xD, I flipped two cards and after a few hours he posted that he already made it to sub 30s. Thats how I losed , xD

Goodluck @Simon Luisi!

Hi JayroldF,

Maybe your powerful imagination about seeing through the cards to get a head start at memorizing is part of what makes you this good at it.

I don’t use a metronome either. I have used it before and disliked the clicking sound; it was distracting me. When I say that I’m now focusing on rhythm, I mean that I make a conscious effort to keep a fast tempo throughout the deck, making sure not to start racing, even if I feel that would be possible, and especially making sure not to spend extra time on anything. If the image doesn’t come to mind, then I just pay a bit more attention to the locus and move on, hoping for the best. ( If I know the locus, I don’t need to recall the image with my method, but just the locus is kind of super easy to forget)

I think your speculation about why I progressed slowly is way off, but not entirely wrong. I didn’t start off at 15 minutes, my first decks were over an hour long and I can’t be overly honest here because I wouldn’t be believed… I never thought I would break the 10 minute barrier… Also, I decided right away to use very large systems, which take longer to memorize and get familiar with. My approach as always been to do whatever I think will help to improve my memory the best, and it is easy to get discouraged when the others try an approach and it works for them meanwhile you do very unimpressive things with it. Eventually, I became convinced to focus on speed, and I’m still focusing on that, and I have been for more than a year, and it is still improving: I just set a new pb this morning, with 27 correct cards in 66 seconds: this was the 6th time in less than 30 days that I achieve more than half a deck of correct cards in the 60s second range. So, I’m getting a bit more steady. Soon, I will feel confident enough to lower my times to an average under 60 seconds but there are too many unpleasant disasters that occur at that speed now for me to want to go there tomorrow. It’s just been less than 3 months since my times average under 70 seconds… My ultimate goal is to get 26 good cards under 60 seconds, and I’m feeling very hopeful that I’ll get there.

You have to be wise about understanding the % of your improvement. Improving by 3 seconds from 100 seconds is about as big an improvement as losing 1 second from 33 seconds. You got to keep track of your % of improvement per week or day, and not just the amount of improvement.

I certainly did read about your exciting race to sub 30 second level. Competition is definitely a good thing for memory