New member: newtonbase, UK


Hello, I’m Mark. My main hobby is solving Rubik’s Cubes with the blindfolded events being my favourite. There is less of a bias towards youngsters with nimble fingers in those events. I joined this forum as I’m keen on improving my memory for the multiple blindfold event where you memo a number of cubes and then solve them all with a 1 hour limit for the whole process.

I have now started to learn cards and have a full PAO list which I’m trying to learn properly before I make a full attempt. Experience with cubes tells me I should try to get the basics down first.

I’m used to using bigger, more complex images than 17 PAOs so will need to come up with some new journeys with more loci but I’m looking forward to it. I’ll be focusing more on the cards once I get my next cubing competition out of the way this weekend where I hope to break into the UK top 20.

Thanks for having me.

(selmo'i cu se nintadni) #2

Welcome! I found this forum while looking for information about memo in blindsolving, and ended up interested in memory for its own sake. :smiley: I don’t currently have any plans for learning blindsolving, but I’m tentatively planning to start creating letter-pair images once I have my number system filled out. What method do you use? 3-style, I assume? As far as I’ve seen, there doesn’t seem to be anything better, though I’ve seen some people talking about optimizations in execution or having multiple buffers. I’ll probably look into it more if I get more interested again.


Hi. I use a mix of OP/M2 and 3 style. I’ll eventually learn more commutators but life gets in the way. More of the top guys are learning multiple buffers and there’s plenty of discussion over which are best. The technical side of blindsolving is really taking off as it gets more popular.
Multiple blindfold records are finally falling after Maskow set the bar so high but I think there is still a way to go and improvements in memory techniques could really help that. I can see people getting 60 cubes in the next few years.

(selmo'i cu se nintadni) #4

Yeah, I find that discussion interesting to follow on speedsolving when I have time. On the surface it seems like BLD pretty much just has one viable method, but it’s cool to see that there’s still innovation and things to be discovered and tested. One thing I love about cubing is trying out different methods and trying to find the best one. Of course, one side effect of that is I never stick with one long enough to get sub-60, but it’s enjoyable to do. I still have trouble with consistently finding commutators; that’s something I’ll need to work on when I pick up cubing again.

Yeah, all we need is a top mnemonist who is also a fast cuber and everything gets blown out of the water in multi.


Commutators aren’t too hard to find once you’ve spent a bit of time with them. I can do full solves with them but there is too much thinking time involved. To get good I’d need to spend time choosing the best one for each case and drilling until it’s mindless but that could take hundreds of hours of practise and I don’t have that time.
In MBLD arguably the best mnemonist has gone the other way and spends his time on memory sports. For a top mnemonist to take up MBLD I think they would have to give up memory sports as there would be no time for both.
Id be interested to know how the WR ranks as a memory feat? It’s just shy of 1000 pieces of information in 36 minutes. Of course identifying the correct pieces slows it down.

(selmo'i cu se nintadni) #6

Yeah, I would just need to drill commutators until I have an intuition for them like I have for tesuji in go. I know there would come a point, if I practiced enough, where as soon as I identified the cycle, I’d know the correct moves even before I had consciously read them out. Right now I have to try pretty much every possible value for A and B, without a very good intuition as to which values of A and B are more likely to be correct.

Hmm, there are about 9.1 bits of information in (23*24) possible images, how many letter-pair images are on a cube, on average? According to this site, Munkhshur Narmandakh memorized 6270 bits of information in 30 minutes. I’m not sure how much of the hour is used for memo in MBLD, since solving and memo both count towards the hour limit, whereas in memory, recall time normally doesn’t count towards your score.


There are around 20 bits of information per cube on average so 10 pairs.
MBLD memo does vary. The WR was 36 minutes memo and the second best was 40. The longer you spend on memo then the quicker you execute. The WR2 was a very safe memo but the execution was 20s per cube which is crazy fast for MBLD.

(selmo'i cu se nintadni) #8

Then 48/48 is only about 960 bits of information in over half an hour, right? Seems like there would be a lot of room for improvement in memo alone, in that case. I wonder if there is any alternate way to approach memo besides starting with a sticker, following that sticker cycle until it completes a closed loop, and then beginning another sticker cycle? Obviously the limits of working memory must be taken into account, but is there any alternate approach to memo which attempts to reduce the number of partial cube rotations during memo? The closer one can get to the relevant face already being visible at the moment you want information from it, the closer memo can get to a list of numbers.

(James P.) #9

Hello Newtonbase,
Welcome to the site.

I’m a cuber too. I’m not a speed solver and I really just dabble in cubing. I like shapeshifters and am currently having a fun challenge with a 2x3x4 fully functional cuboid. I don’t memorize algorithms to solve cubes (well I have a few like SUNE) but generally I just tinker my way through them using 3-cycles. I use The Ultimate Method (developed by Philip Marshall and reinvigorated and expanded upon by Rline).

I actual started to use the Rubiks cube as a memory palace and in my mind I’m the core of the cube and each cubie is a loci except U center (Uc) which is my escape hatch which I can move in and out of to access more palaces. I haven’t played with the moving of loci just yet but once I get my PAO and a few physical palaces in place I might try. I guess it would be like a blind solve from the inside of the cube. It may be useful and at minimum a good mental training exercise.

James P.


Nobody has come up with a viable alternative to cycles and I doubt that they will. There’s a possibility of becoming colour neutral so that you don’t have to orient the cube before memo but that’s going to add one cube at most in the hour.
I think that the best option for improvement is in the memo methods. It’s surprising how little people talk about this. They will mention reviews and discuss pairs and images but you don’t see as much about what they are thinking during the process.


Using a cube as a palace sounds worth a try. I know them inside out and already know a path that I use for my letter scheme. I could do stickers rather than cubies giving me 54 on a regular cube if I added centres to the journey to squeeze in a deck of cards. . I could even use a 4x4 or 5x5 giving 96 or 150 respectively as I do them blind too. Ready made journeys are attractive.


Replies to posts don’t work how I’m used to. No quotes. I’m doing something wrong.

(selmo'i cu se nintadni) #13

Memo methods are what I was referring to in my post.

(Josh Cohen) #14

Are you trying to include quotes in your posts? First highlight some text with your cursor, then click the “quote” text that should appear. You can do it multiple times per post. JavaScript has to be enabled.

If it doesn’t work for you, let me know.


It does work. Thanks.

Got 7/7 in multiple blindfold this weekend in a competition. Should put me 16th in the UK.