Mixing up Info In Journey

Hi all,

Just a quick question. How do we use the same memory journey to memorise two sets of completely different information without muddling them up? I am assuming there is a way to do this otherwise it would be kind of overwhelming to have a new journey for every new bit of information that we gather right ? :slight_smile:
What ios your technique for not mixing them up? is it simply constant review i.e. spaced repetition following immediately after, 1hr, 1 day, 1 week, 3 months etc?

Would really appreciate some help here!

Thanks

Akeel

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First, I’ll confess that I’ve never done what you’re attempting, preferring to have separate journeys/palaces devoted to all of the different kinds of information I memorize. But I know others here have used this approach successfully. So it’s possible.

If I were going to do it, though, I’d start by making sure the information I’m putting in the same location is distinct, unlikely to get intermingled and confused. I would not use the same palace/journey to store vocabulary for both Italian and French, for example. I might use the same space to store Top 100 songs and Best Picture winners, since those are unlikely to be confused with one another. But I think it would be even better to use my “Top 100 songs” space to also store the names of significant Renaissance artists or medical details about the human skeletal system, subjects that are in no way related to the original information.

You might then consider “walking” this journey/palace from the opposite direction, essentially going backward through your “First Level” locations to create a Second Level of information.

Another option might be to consider using locations that went unused in your first journey. If you’re in a house, maybe your first pass focused on furniture for your locations. So maybe your second pass focuses on the walls, floors, and ceilings, leaving your original locations untouched.

Finally, I’ll mention that some folks recommend adjusting the overall environment for every new pass—To add additional layers of new information, they suggest, imagine that everything is now on fire or underwater or green, etc., etc. I don’t personally recommend this approach at all. Because I believe it limits the images you can create and could lead to confusion between the layers of information: “Oh, I can’t have something on fire in Level One because I’ll confuse it with all of the flaming things in Level Three” or “Are the leaves on this tree green because it’s a tree or because the information is part of what I’m storing in the Green Level?”

I honestly think you’re better off just using a new memory palace, though, rather than trying to shoehorn everything into one palace you use repeatedly. My guess is that there are many places you know well that could serve as memory palaces; I wouldn’t recommend adding layers until you’ve exhausted all of those possibilities.

Bob

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Hi @RMBittner,

Thank you so much for the useful response. So just to clarify, I have recently started using memory journeys and have only about 3 -4 journeys solidly reinforced in memory; they have 80, 23, 23 and around 15 loci respectively. Practically, depending on what I am learning in my field (machine learning/ Math/ Ai etc) you are suggesting that I create a new unique location for each new ‘compartment’ of knowledge, for eg: Topic A, B, C where all topics are ‘sort of’ mutually exclusive?

How many journeys do you have memorised? Do you just create oen as you learn new info…

Thanks

I never reuse the exact same palace for multiple things, but I have ways to use a palace as a base for other palaces.

First things first, what I will mention is reusing a palace for long-term information, when it is short-term (like numbers or cards) the loci are generally ready to be used again in a few hours.

When fully reusing a palace for long-term information, I add markers. I could imagine the palace submersed under water, where the tv is obviously broken, the table might be floating around the room and the beds are soaked. The images all interact in a relevant way too. Another marker could be everything being on fire, or made from stone, let your imagination run wild.

Though for long-term information I usually build a new palace that is made in a fitting theme

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I combine the concept of a Journey, which is really a route, with the concept of an individual trip. I might walk the same Journey on different trips. When I traverse the Journey, I keep in mind the ‘purpose’ of that trip and it seems to work.

I only reuse memory structures for temporary information. If I want he info long term, I make a special Journey or Palace for it.

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Many of the people here use their memory palaces for competition rather than storing long term valued information. Kind of a shame in some ways but playing the game is a good way of learning the techniques.

There are a couple of ways of going about the challenge. Once you have committed a journey and all the items in it to long term memory then you could likely reuse the journey without confusion because you know the content. By using Anki or the memo-sets in the software on the site you could reinforce the information on an ongoing basis to keep it fresh as long term facts.

If you are trying to learn more than one thing simultaneously then a single journey / memory palace is likely going to mess with your head. Not everyone here is equally talented and there are quite a few players who are “not normal” so you need to understand where you current skill and talent are to make the decision.

I have no talent, possibly less than normal. So I try to mostly learn 1 thing at a time and learn it well. This doesn’t work well for people who are taking 6 discrete courses while holding down a job.

There are journeys, like astrology, astronomy etc… That are effectively open ended that such that you could use them to store all your long term data… This is the path that I intend to go down once I (IF ever) develop adequate skill to do so.

For the moment I have been working on numbers because I need to be able to recall them to do mental calculation and that is my first love on this site. (An area where I have equally little talent).

I know people say this is easy but again you have to put it into context…
This weekend I encoded and recalled 24 digits in 3 minutes. IF I wasn’t watching guys do 80 with 100% recall in under 60 seconds I would be quite pleased with myself. Similarly I have been watching these same folk recall 52 cards in sub-30 seconds…

The people doing this discard their encoded numbers very quickly and reuse their journeys, memory palaces, loci regularly. Most will have a few journeys so that they don’t have to reuse in the same day/hour/event kind of thing but they have no intention of retaining the data beyond the use in competition.

Your objective is different. The memory palace provided you with the leverage to get the ideas from short term memory to “medium term” memory very fast. Once there you need to reinforce those ideas on a productive schedule, noting the ideas that don’t want to stick and putting extra effort into them.

Once you have them all hard wired then you need to refresh them occasionally or they will fade. It doesn’t take much of an electric pulse to do this but it needs to be done.

Depending on your need you can then either train without the memory palace to increase the recall speed without the encoding/decoding step IF you need fast unconscious recall OR you can be very pleased with yourself and find some new things to ideas to add to your collection.

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That depends a little of your approach I think. I figure the reason you don’t want to mix Italian and French is because they are both Romance language, similar but not the same… and you are afraid you could mistake one for the other.

I use a Mars candy bar though to remind me of Tuesday in not just Italian and French, but also Spanish, Catalan, and Romanian. Yes, they have slightly different spellings, but I don’t memorize the spelling verbatim via mnemonics anyways, so just the hint as far as they planet is enough for 5 languages mixed together in the same location. Same goes for the rest of the weekdays.

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Maybe take a different approach and try benchmarking first. You say you are new to this and at the moment your assumption is that thinking up new journeys (or palaces if you prefer) is the hard part as far as this whole exercise. At the moment you got a little less than 150 locations in total across 4 journeys.

Benchmark 1 - Pi Matrix: you will be asked to give the 5 digits to the left and the five digits to the right of the 5 digits you are given within the first 10,000 digits of pi. People store this as 5 digits in 2,000 locations. Roughly 10 to 20 times more the number of locations you have atm.

Benchmark 2 - Memory Championship: At a national level 10 events between 5 and 15 minutes each. Some events have 2 or three trials. Assume that for a decent beginner’s score (1,000 - 2,000 points) you’ll need 20 locations per 5 minutes exercise. In total this will be about 300-400 locations.

Benchmark 3 - Int’l Master of Memory: similar to benchmark 2 but instead of 15 minutes for the long events, it’s 1 hour. You need to get 1,000 digits, 10 decks of card and a deck under 5 minutes for that; plus, your overall score has to be 3,000+ In total this will be about 1,000 - 1,500 locations.

Now, the only difference between you and those people is that they actively compete in memory sports; however, they do NOT have seen more places in their lifetime than you have. Also, that’s probably not the only palaces they have, so make of this what you will, but your number of palaces can easily at least double or triple.

All that being said, if you do long term memorization, you have less of a problem with “ghosting” when reusing your journey. During competition it’s almost impossible to reuse a journey, because it needs a couple of days before the images fade… but you don’t even want your images to fade.

Imagine a bicycle, in order for the next person to get on the first person needs to get off the bike. That’s the short term, recall and forget after… really, exam cram kinda attitude during competitions. For you (and the pi matrix) it’s more like a bus full of people.

It’s hard to mix up information on the same route, because the stories are distinct. Consider watching 3 tv shows you like each week… do they mix together only because they all happen in the same week… no because the actors and stories are different and you can follow all three at the same time. Now, do we all prefer binge watching a whole season on Netflix instead… of course we do, but that’s how the generation before you managed to life their lives too.

Bottom line, yes put two stories on the same journey if you have to… maybe assist it with suggestions from above, like the second story you walk the locations back-to-front; but you are really nowhere close to running out of ideas yet as far as new locations / journeys.

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I currently have 10, ranging in size from about 20 loci to over 200, with one likely to expand to over 500 as I add new information.

I personally would never use the word create when talking about using new palaces for new information, because I’m not creating them, per se; I’m using real-world places that I know well. But, yes, I use a new memory palace for every new list I memorize—and, so far, everything I’ve memorized could be considered a “list,” from the world’s countries to the U.S. states, from family birthdays to a customer list to award-winning movies and music.

I can’t imagine reusing a palace for multiple different lists. One big reason is that I end up associating these loved, remembered places with their specific bits of information. When I review the US states and the dates they became states, I get to walk through my grandmother’s house, which (along with my grandmother) no longer exists in real life. When I review the world’s countries, I walk the campus of my college, which I loved and where I met my wife.

In case it isn’t obvious, I’m memorizing for personal edification/knowledge, not competition.

Bob

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