Lucid Dreaming + Memory Palace

The claim that one can simply remodel one’s personality, as if you were under the hood with a wrench and could just move things around at will. I dismiss as unfounded and absurd. This is a very big claim. It’s an extraordinary claim and it requires extraordinary evidence. Personality and habits are very hard to change. And for good reason. The brain protects itself and its habits. They are valuable. They represent your knowledge of the world. In memory work we find ourselves fighting this very barrier. The brain needs to forget, it resists taking on new baggage for no obvious reason. I need to memorize the squares up to 100? Really? I’m busy Get lost!

You are right. It is just too difficult and in certain cases,almost impossible to change one’s core personality traits.

However,under certain conditions,brain can re-wire itself(neuroplasticity). This type of re-wiring may not change one’s personality at its core. But this re-wiring can give ‘new and better insight’ to an individual. With the new insight,the individual starts to see and understand the world differently and thus bring changes to his ‘behaviors,habits and actions’.

Meditation can do wonder,because it is a technique to help to re-wire the brain. Meditation takes time and a lot of efforts,but it is shocking how much change meditation can bring to one’s life and personality.

I can ask any question of my Lucid Dream. That would be interesting for sure. But what kind of answer would one get and would it be any wiser than the one I get when I’m awake? If I ask him about myself, why would he be any more honest, any less deceived than I am now.

The reason lies in the different activities or functions of subconscious and conscious mind!

The main reason of your mind (or self) being more ‘honest,straightforward,deep,insightful’ in Lucid dream or just dreams is simply because of subconscious mind. During waking hours,you have hard time to directly connect with your subconscious mind. Because your conscious mind limits your access to your subconscious mind. But in ‘dreams or lucid dreams’,you come in direct contact with your subconscious mind,which is a lot more honest than your conscious mind. Also,90% of what you are is hidden in your subconscious mind,which you have no access to during conscious states. And subconscious mind is always more ‘honest,straightforward’ than conscious mind……So……

Truly.
Which is why this experiment was to get rid of all of that bs and just get down to the practical nature of what both mean.

While people do say “you are what you remember, therefore memorization is critical”, I don’t believe that the outcome should determine much of anything but the process.
Your personality changes as you defeat the demons within yourself versus anything else.
When I run, I’m not battling with my body versus my mind.

So I definitely get what you are saying.
And it is better to not blindly follow what people do post.

Ultimately for me this was an experiment into the exploration of the capabilities of my own mind.
Whether or not it works, is up to me, and whether or not anything can come of it, is again, up to me.

Lastly, it may be difficult to prove.
All you are really doing is reviewing more or interacting with wanted information more.
But some people need more reviews for certain information and some people need less.
So it will all boil down to theory, but if it has any merit, would better to have than not imo.

Hello ZVuV,

I remember reading the dialogue: protagoras from plato. Therein socrates discusses the question weather virtue was teachable. My point being: Socrates asks Protagoras if he could stick to a very briefly put answer to keep the dialogue short and “lucid” - clear.

I´d ask you to do the same. It is very arduous (exhausting) to keep reading long passages of thought put together.
No hard feelings.

But it seems some of you guys don´t know, that there are teachers like Morley or LaBerge,
who train people to learn LD.

For myself I can say that I am only a beginner. But I´ve had some very intense experience
with LD. There are studies of successful sportsmen especially gymnasts who apply LD
in their preparations for competitions as a proof that it works.
As far as I know there are post doc studies concerning these applications.
Of course these sportsman had to learn the LD beforehand.

Here is a link to the book of Stephen LaBerge: Exploring the World of LD:
http://users.telenet.be/sterf/texts/other/exploring_the_world_of_lucid_dreaming.pdf
There are no page numbers in this edition. So you gotta check out chapter 9
LD problem solving.
On page 219 you might find a very sophisticated state of developement.
The lucid dream workshop… - check it out!
I admit it seems a very outlandish claim. But since the book is build up very methodologically
it seems to be at reach for anyone who is truely willing to spent time and effort.

One more thing I´d like to mention here:
For any of you who have not yet had any LD - experience - there is a short cut:
A technical device called REM dreamer pro.
REM Dreamer PRO Lucid Dream Induction & Detection Sleep Mask Dreaming Device by REM

I hope this could be helpful for you guys.

And I have another idea worth spreading for you. Later I have to go now.

Hi, am back again - willing to spread what I deem is the most beautiful and thrilling LD - technique I´ve come across so far: I forgot how this technique is called. So I might as well describe it briefly:

If one of you has a close friend or life companion who is willing to watch you sleeping, the REM - phase is quite easy to detect since we can all see the REM through closed eyes.
In the next step, the partipant could gently and in a calm voice suggest to the one REM - sleeping that he / or she is likely to be in a deeper dream phase and should wake up in the dream - in other words become lucid.

1 Like

It’s hard work read, writing, thinking. Few enjoy it much. That’s why we have Twitter where people “think” if you call it that, and write in sound bites I came here to do some work and get something out of the discussions. I write about a page of text at a time. I would think an adult would take that in effortlessly.

It is appropriate to dispute the points I have made. I’m always interested in better writing. If you can show a sentence or paragraph that could be better written, where it fails to be lucid, I would appreciate it.

Otherwise, you are over the line. If you feel a member is inappropriate, you talk to a moderator or perhaps to the member privately. You do not dress him down in the forum in front of all the other members.

And why on earth did you read it all if it was not worth the effort? Didn’t you catch on after you suffered through the first? Can’t you tell in advance that it’s a long post? I don’t read everybody’s stuff. I give you full permission to ignore me. You have no standing to say how much I write.

Do not take this tone with me again, even if , as now, it comes cloaked as a “friendly request”

If Josh tells me to shut up. I will.

Otherwise: I am here to talk. I will. I have things to say. I will say them. If you don’t like it skip it.

2 Likes

To ZVUV:

Hi, I am not that kind of impolite and boorish monster full of arrogance as you might think…

It is a complete misunderstanding which I would clearly like to root out of our conversation.

But it will take me another few days to give you an appropriate and precise answer

if I can manage to achieve that clarity at all.

Best,

K.

2 Likes

I will consider it so. :slight_smile:

I am aware that l’m a bit much and that listening to me is like drinking from the fire hose. I cannot change that. I am partly autistic. I mean no harm but you have to take me or leave me.

1 Like

I personally think that dreams are too unreliable to be used in any meaningful way.

You should read the following book. Your personal ‘thinking’ might change after going through the book written by the dream researshers!

If you can use those 8 hours you spend asleep and recovering for other things without impeding on the recovery it is certainly valid even if it were unreliable : being 1/3rd your entire day.

Lucid Dreams are great for a lot of things, particular in personal and spiritual growth. But, using it to memorize/recall cold hard facts will be difficult.
Dreams are unpredictable and unreliable in this regard. You can be looking at information and perceive it to be correct, but be completely fooled once you wake up.

It’s a nice idea. And maybe you can do it on a smaller scale? But memorizing large quantities is unmanageable.

You aren’t using it memorize much of anything.

You are going to sleep and consolidating memories that were already made.
As you are sleeping, you can’t create new memories.
So, you can’t memorize new information, only review older information.

Your brain does this naturally, the method seeks to guide however little brain power can be afforded, to focus on reviewing or even committing it to long term memory faster.

Even if you fail, you can still lucid dream and have fun, so win win imo

Yeah! Lucid Dreams are great and always worth exploring. Maybe I should try this myself. I’ve been lucid dreaming for years now!

Hello there, has any of you LD - enthusiasts used the product: “REM - dreamer pro”?

It seems very easy to apply. But I have not yet made up my mind to purchase it right away.

The results seem very reliable though. (As I have heard from others experiences).

In my experience lucid dream masks are just a gimmick. An often expensive gimmick too.

There is absolutely no reason for you to just learn how to do it by yourself. There is no magic pill that will give you lucid dreams for free. It’s something that you need to work towards.

Quote:

,In my experience lucid dream masks are just a gimmick. An often expensive gimmick too.

There is absolutely no reason for you to just learn how to do it by yourself. There is no magic pill that will give you lucid dreams for free. It’s something that you need to work towards."

Ok, I have heard that as well. But as soon as I know they have had a major progress in redesigning these products. I once met a person who said he didn´t know much about LD and all the necessities of reality checks and so on but had this REM - Dreamer pro device and had several lucid dreams in a short period of time.

In other words: I kind of doubt your doubts cause I just wanna be that stupid and get a very expensive gimmick hoping it will do the trick.

I have also heard that it is quite good for the melatonin production that one sleeps in complete darkness. Therefore a much cheaper gimmick is the traditional sleep mask for starters…

1 Like

“There is no magic pill that will give you lucid dreams for free. It’s something that you need to work towards.”

  • Yeah!,

I was actually working on that and had a few results - about 2 strong lucid dreams in a half a year. But it seems very logical to me that this device could be helpful since it tracts your rapid eye movement phases. It is as if you had an intimate friend watch you sleeping and tell you when to wake up in your dreams.

The main reason that lucid dreaming wasn’t investigated until recently (beginning with K. Hearne, 1975) is that it was the prevailing belief that the frontal lobes could not be awake (the part that would allow you to have control of the dream) when you were asleep: the fantastical nature and bizarre stories occurred because the frontal lobes were asleep.

However, during lucid dreaming the frontal lobes are actually not asleep, yet one remains in the dream state (REM sleep, which is a light stage of sleep).

I haven’t had a lucid dream (have had near lucid; but I basically can’t be bothered with it), but you can train yourself to have lucid dreams and to increase their frequency. From what I’ve read the lucid dreamer has quite a large degree of control over the dream once they are lucid, but not total.

Another issue seems to be that one cannot reliably have lucid dreams whenever one wants. But, perhaps these are issues that can be resolved with training (you could check out: Tuccillo, D., Zeisel, J., and Peisel, T. (2013). A field guide to lucid dreaming: Mastering the art of Oneironautics. New York, NY: Workman Publishing).

A lot of things that “make sense” and “seem logical” are either not the case in reality or their effect is negligible. That’s why ideas that make sense need to be then tested or verified one way or another. Anecdotes are not good evidence at all. People who have great results, naturally celebrate, but you don’t hear as much from the people it didn’t work for and you can’t asses the balance just from anecdotes.

Medicine, psychology, self help, these are fields that have long been plagued by charlatans, quacks and enthusiastic people who don’t really know what they are talking about. And it happens in our subjects too in books and videos on memory techniques. IMO there’s good reason to be skeptical and hold onto your money at least for a while

2 Likes

I actually attempted to do this for a very long time so I’ll explain my experience. So about four years ago there was a really intense year in school where I was studying 12 to 15 hours per day (using the mind palace every minute of that time) every day including weekends and my biggest problem was trying to find more time to study. I already had done a lot of lucid dreaming so I was pretty good at making it happen but the problem is that when you have such an intense schedule it’s already difficult to sleep as all you can think about is the content that you are studying all day. I tried this pretty much every night for four months. At the start waking up was a huge problem, I will try do you receive information
I tried this pretty much every night for four months. At the start waking up was a huge problem, I would try to see the information and once I got a glimpse of it I would either get excited and wake up or get anxious about some exam and wake up. Eventually I got it to the point where I didn’t wake up and I remember feeling like I was learning so much while I was sleeping but then when I woke up and thought back on it I realised that all the information in the dream was nonsense, for maths everything I was learning was complete gobelty goop but when you are in a dream you don’t realise this and you think you are learning new information that nobody else has heard. The mind palaces I went through felt like they were the ones I had previously made but when I woke up I realised that they were completely random or may have started off as a mind palace I made but the characters in them were completely different. The biggest part about dreams that makes this a problem is that everything in a dream seems normal so you aren’t actually able to realise that your brain is tricking you and the mind palace you are seeing isn’t actually the one you made. Also you feel a deep connection to your dreams when you are in them and that connection makes it feel like this is something you have seen before. I really hope somebody else has been successful with doing this but that is just my experience. Hope it is helpful and not too discouraging:)

3 Likes