# Do I Need a PERFECT VISUALIZATION to become a Good MEMORY ATHLETE! **URL:** \ **Category:** General Memory Chat\ **Tags:** aphantasia, visualization\ **Created:** [December 29, 2021, 3:20pm UTC](https://forum.artofmemory.com/t/do-i-need-a-perfect-visualization-to-become-a-good-memory-athlete/69745 "2021-12-29T15:20:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Soobin](https://forum.artofmemory.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/s/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Soobin](https://forum.artofmemory.com/u/Soobin)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2021, 3:20pm UTC](https://forum.artofmemory.com/t/do-i-need-a-perfect-visualization-to-become-a-good-memory-athlete/69745/1 "2021-12-29T15:20:23Z")
Is it necessary I have a perfect visualization to become a top memory athlete? This question have been boggling my mind for a while now! Any help hommies? ---
**Author:** ![bjoern.gumboldt](https://forum.artofmemory.com/user_avatar/forum.artofmemory.com/bjoern.gumboldt/32/16747_2.png) [@bjoern.gumboldt](https://forum.artofmemory.com/u/bjoern.gumboldt)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2021, 3:59pm UTC](https://forum.artofmemory.com/t/do-i-need-a-perfect-visualization-to-become-a-good-memory-athlete/69745/2 "2021-12-29T15:59:11Z")
No ---
**Author:** ![Soobin](https://forum.artofmemory.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/s/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Soobin](https://forum.artofmemory.com/u/Soobin)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2021, 4:02pm UTC](https://forum.artofmemory.com/t/do-i-need-a-perfect-visualization-to-become-a-good-memory-athlete/69745/3 "2021-12-29T16:02:57Z")
Pls Explain better bro​❤ ---
**Author:** ![Readerly](https://forum.artofmemory.com/user_avatar/forum.artofmemory.com/readerly/32/7101_2.png) [@Readerly](https://forum.artofmemory.com/u/Readerly)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2021, 4:17pm UTC](https://forum.artofmemory.com/t/do-i-need-a-perfect-visualization-to-become-a-good-memory-athlete/69745/4 "2021-12-29T16:17:17Z")
To explain further, you don’t need to perfectly visualize anything. All you need is a sense or impression of visual memory. You don’t really even need to use your visual memory at all, as there are some people who have aphantasia who can use memory techniques just fine with some adjustments. ---
**Author:** ![Finwing](https://forum.artofmemory.com/user_avatar/forum.artofmemory.com/finwing/32/11008_2.png) [@Finwing](https://forum.artofmemory.com/u/Finwing)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2021, 6:10pm UTC](https://forum.artofmemory.com/t/do-i-need-a-perfect-visualization-to-become-a-good-memory-athlete/69745/5 "2021-12-29T18:10:36Z")
I don’t think that you need perfect visualization for memory sports. In my experience it’s sufficient when you add just enough details to be able to distinguish the images. For instance a zebra can just be a blur with some implied stripes. As long as you remember that there was something with black and white stripes at the location, you can retrieve all the information. But I can’t speak for top athletes unfortunately. ---
**Author:** ![Bigdonnyv](https://forum.artofmemory.com/user_avatar/forum.artofmemory.com/bigdonnyv/32/15039_2.png) [@Bigdonnyv](https://forum.artofmemory.com/u/Bigdonnyv)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2021, 6:12pm UTC](https://forum.artofmemory.com/t/do-i-need-a-perfect-visualization-to-become-a-good-memory-athlete/69745/6 "2021-12-29T18:12:27Z")
Definitely not. In fact, some are doing this with aphantasia. ---
**Author:** ![Josh](https://forum.artofmemory.com/user_avatar/forum.artofmemory.com/josh/32/21_2.png) [@Josh](https://forum.artofmemory.com/u/Josh)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2021, 6:35pm UTC](https://forum.artofmemory.com/t/do-i-need-a-perfect-visualization-to-become-a-good-memory-athlete/69745/7 "2021-12-29T18:35:59Z")
Here are some related posts: #aphantasia ---
**Author:** ![Elco](https://forum.artofmemory.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/e/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Elco](https://forum.artofmemory.com/u/Elco)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2021, 1:21am UTC](https://forum.artofmemory.com/t/do-i-need-a-perfect-visualization-to-become-a-good-memory-athlete/69745/8 "2021-12-31T01:21:57Z")
what adjustments are you referring to? ---
**Author:** ![Readerly](https://forum.artofmemory.com/user_avatar/forum.artofmemory.com/readerly/32/7101_2.png) [@Readerly](https://forum.artofmemory.com/u/Readerly)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2021, 1:53am UTC](https://forum.artofmemory.com/t/do-i-need-a-perfect-visualization-to-become-a-good-memory-athlete/69745/9 "2021-12-31T01:53:12Z")
If you search some of the posts made by @LynneKelly, you can get the general idea of how people with aphantasia memorize with memory techniques. ---
**Author:** ![LynneKelly](https://forum.artofmemory.com/user_avatar/forum.artofmemory.com/lynnekelly/32/385_2.png) [@LynneKelly](https://forum.artofmemory.com/u/LynneKelly)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2021, 2:40am UTC](https://forum.artofmemory.com/t/do-i-need-a-perfect-visualization-to-become-a-good-memory-athlete/69745/10 "2021-12-31T02:40:14Z")
Hi Soobin, Eli and all, I have aphantasia, so no visualisation at all - I close my eyes and think of something and all I see is grey mush. But I do have some kind of impression of an image. I know what a tree looks like! When I started on memory training for long term and competitions, I didn’t know that I had aphantasia. It was a shock to learn that other people actually ‘saw’ the images. I just followed the training ideas, created memory palaces, PAO and so on. I didn’t realise until later that I was doing things a bit differently. Even now, I am not sure how much that differs. I suspect that everyone does their own refinements on the methods to suit themselves. I tend to use stories more. Dominic O’Brien, who helped me a lot when I started training, said to make sure every image had a logical connection. I suspect that I don’t use ‘weird’ as much as ‘logical’ - but these are not strict rules. For my memory palaces, I don’t have a clear image of the location. I have a key point, as Finwing suggested with zebras. My palace for images, for example, is a series of shops, but with time they have reduced to a sequence of key ideas associated with each shop. So my sequence is grog-shop-pillar-post-rain-yellow-river… Thirty shops have become thirty simple concepts that I look for in each image. Whether I could become a top athlete or not, I don’t know. I suspect not, but more because of my personality and that I don’t handle the stress of competing well at all. I competed twice in real world competitions and took out the Australian Senior (60+) title both times (there aren’t many of us in that category!), but I found the stress almost unbearable. That was before I knew that I had aphantasia. I do Memory League and compete against myself when I get time. I love that! I think that I do names and faces differently, because remembering a face isn’t going to happen and likening them to someone else with the same name is even less likely. I have a bestiary, a series of animals and characters for the first two letters of names. Each of those has a key feature - the chipmunk (ch-) has a stripe, the bower bird (bo-) loves blue. So I look at the first two letters of the name and then find some relationship in the image. Often I will only note the striped tie or total lack of blue in the clothes. So my advice would be to stop worrying or even thinking about it. Just start practicing, making memory palaces, making up stories and characters, and have fun! Your brain will adapt the methods. Lynne ---
**Author:** ![Liam](https://forum.artofmemory.com/user_avatar/forum.artofmemory.com/liam/32/5903_2.png) [@Liam](https://forum.artofmemory.com/u/Liam)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2021, 3:03am UTC](https://forum.artofmemory.com/t/do-i-need-a-perfect-visualization-to-become-a-good-memory-athlete/69745/11 "2021-12-31T03:03:48Z")
There is no such thing as "perfect visualization. " ---
**Author:** ![Soobin](https://forum.artofmemory.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/s/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Soobin](https://forum.artofmemory.com/u/Soobin)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2021, 11:41am UTC](https://forum.artofmemory.com/t/do-i-need-a-perfect-visualization-to-become-a-good-memory-athlete/69745/12 "2021-12-31T11:41:15Z")
You are a motivation for me and many others​✊ Love you​💞 More power to your elbow ma​❣❣ ---
**Author:** ![Elco](https://forum.artofmemory.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/e/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Elco](https://forum.artofmemory.com/u/Elco)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2021, 2:06pm UTC](https://forum.artofmemory.com/t/do-i-need-a-perfect-visualization-to-become-a-good-memory-athlete/69745/13 "2021-12-31T14:06:29Z")
Oh my god you monster! twice?! Wow. That’s inspirational. Do you have any tips for how to train on a daily basis? I know of the PAO, Dominic, and other systems and have a system in place for most of them, but I don’t know what daily practice would actually look like. ---
**Author:** ![LynneKelly](https://forum.artofmemory.com/user_avatar/forum.artofmemory.com/lynnekelly/32/385_2.png) [@LynneKelly](https://forum.artofmemory.com/u/LynneKelly)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2022, 5:53am UTC](https://forum.artofmemory.com/t/do-i-need-a-perfect-visualization-to-become-a-good-memory-athlete/69745/14 "2022-01-01T05:53:44Z")
Thank you. I am hugely flattered. ---
**Author:** ![LynneKelly](https://forum.artofmemory.com/user_avatar/forum.artofmemory.com/lynnekelly/32/385_2.png) [@LynneKelly](https://forum.artofmemory.com/u/LynneKelly)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2022, 6:03am UTC](https://forum.artofmemory.com/t/do-i-need-a-perfect-visualization-to-become-a-good-memory-athlete/69745/15 "2022-01-01T06:03:32Z")
It was the Senior - over 60 section - not the main one! Although I did come in third overall once. As for daily training, I just set a time the day and did it. I kept detailed records so there was the reward of seeing the improvement over time. Plus my palaces, characters and PAO kept being refined as I went. Be ready to do that. Some of my characters were too alike, so I changed them. Some days weren’t good, but the longer time records kept me going because I could see the variation but overall improvement. I also followed some other advice of Dominic O’Brien’s, to exercise before training. So I would only train for 20 - 30 minutes (although it took longer the first few times I did an entire deck). I would always jump around for about ten minutes before training, and always review my palaces or key names before I trained. For some reason, my best event by far was binary numbers. And it isn’t on Memory League! I quite liked training. I just hated the competitions because of the stress. Others thrive on it, but I haven’t liked any competitions of any kind all my life. Just me. In competition, I went much slower than in training - that reduced the stress and improved accuracy, and I was primarily there for the experience - and the hope of the Senior title. There haven’t been any Australian competitions since. I don’t know if I would have done it again. Most of all - have fun and compete against yourself. That’s rewarding! Hope that helps. Others here will have better suggestions because others here are much higher ranked competitors, so maybe try searching for guidance or starting a new thread on that question. Lynne ---
**Author:** ![bjornxyz](https://forum.artofmemory.com/user_avatar/forum.artofmemory.com/bjornxyz/32/18731_2.png) [@bjornxyz](https://forum.artofmemory.com/u/bjornxyz)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2024, 12:47pm UTC](https://forum.artofmemory.com/t/do-i-need-a-perfect-visualization-to-become-a-good-memory-athlete/69745/16 "2024-07-02T12:47:20Z")
How would you go about remembering that sense then? for instance if I have 2 objects that represents sadness together, how would I be able to tell that it was this type of sense upon recall out of all the possible senses like touch, love, bitterness, loudness or whatever? ---
**Author:** ![LynneKelly](https://forum.artofmemory.com/user_avatar/forum.artofmemory.com/lynnekelly/32/385_2.png) [@LynneKelly](https://forum.artofmemory.com/u/LynneKelly)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2024, 11:58pm UTC](https://forum.artofmemory.com/t/do-i-need-a-perfect-visualization-to-become-a-good-memory-athlete/69745/17 "2024-07-02T23:58:34Z")
I am not sure what context you mean. Can you explain when you would want to add a sense to the images? ---
**Author:** ![paulvirtual](https://forum.artofmemory.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/p/53a042/32.png) [@paulvirtual](https://forum.artofmemory.com/u/paulvirtual)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2024, 8:30pm UTC](https://forum.artofmemory.com/t/do-i-need-a-perfect-visualization-to-become-a-good-memory-athlete/69745/18 "2024-07-03T20:30:10Z")
Actually describing what your “mind’s eye” imagines is difficult. I’m having trouble knowing actually. Right now, a PAO vignette I just created is a famous podcaster (the person) putting on a t-shirt (the action) with a picture of computer RAM (the object) on it in a gas (petrol) station (the loci) near my house. As I write that, I don’t really “see” it. But if pretend I’m a drone and zoom out on the gas station loci, I do see/intuit/feel/imagine what the drone would see. I can add the detail of a red t-shirt and see the change. It’s not like HD TV, it’s more like remembering a dream. Using Mark Channon’s idea, I can fast forward and rewind the sequence, and that does help to lock it in. I’m very verbal, so I like reciting the vignette in my brain in words. But it’s more memorable if I can force myself to then “see” it from the drone. Left brain/right brain? Who knows.